5 ms·

I don't know, 10k compared to 100k+ at a proper four year college seems fair to me

by jonursenbach 13y ago

codezero 13y ago
It definitely cost me much less than 100k to go to a proper college, and I got more than 60 weeks of instruction.
- ivanca 13y ago
  Did you get a job at week 65? But anyway this is not the issue, if you pay to learn something so what? What does it haves to be regulated? Is not like food where you may get intoxicated if its bad, is not like cars where you may kill someone if you don't know how to drive; if you need to certify the quality of your employees you can always ask for a college degree and that's it, doesn't mean that everyone haves to ask for it.
  - codezero 13y ago
    I know you were trying to make a point, but actually, I got a job my the summer before my Junior year working in a lab on campus. The school had great resources to match people with interesting on-campus positions that aligned with their major. I ended up working at the lab after graduating for several years. > if you pay to learn so what? I agree. > Why does it have to be regulated? I'm curious to know as well. Certainly there are reasons to regulate, if there is some existing system and these schools somehow violate existing policies. It's not clear why they need to be licensed. > Is not like food ... Regulation happens for more reasons than just personal harm. Obviously some argue that it shouldn't, even if it does cause harm :) > like cars ... A big reason for regulation isn't safety, it's taxation, which helps pay for things like roads and maintenance. I worked before and after having a college degree. Simply not including it on my resume worked fine, and as long as my resume was filled with all the things I knew/was skilled at, my degree or lack of only came up as an afterthought. So I agree with you on the last point.
  - dalke 13y ago
    There's a long history of fraud in education. Quoting from the article, "it would be relatively easy for a fly-by-night operation to advertise a developer bootcamp, collect tuition, and then provide low-quality education — or skip town before the courses were even set to begin. Even if the current crop of hacker boot camps are perfectly ethical, there’s no guaranteeing the integrity of future entrants into the market." Your own statement reflects undue optimism. Who says that 1) you actually make it to week 65, that 2) you get a job, and 3) it's not a ringer job paying sub-market rates from a firm which pays recruitment fees to the school? The article links to http://www.fastcompany.com/3023456/become-an-ios-developer-in-8-weeks-the-truth-about-hack-schools http://www.fastcompany.com/3023456/become-an-ios-developer-i... , which goes into some details about the negatives. And positives. Markets equilibrate slowly with asymmetric information, which is the case with schools. Regulations done right can prevent malicious people from taking advantage of a temporal lag.
    - welder 13y ago
      > Quoting from the article, "it would be relatively easy for a fly-by-night operation to advertise a developer bootcamp, collect tuition, and then provide low-quality education — or skip town before the courses were even set to begin." That's why these bootcamps only charge students after they complete the course and get an industry job.
      - dalke 13y ago
        Really? Quoting that Fast Company article: "With the support of his wife, he sold his 2004 Volvo for the amount of tuition, and his family of four in the suburbs made do as a one-car household." Quoting http://www.hackbrightacademy.com/faq http://www.hackbrightacademy.com/faq : Tuition is $15,000. If you receive and accept a full-time job offer from one of the companies in our network then we will refund $3,000 of your tuition. If the program doesn't meet your expectations in the first 2 weeks, we'll give you your money back (less your down payment). Yes, there are some which do as you suggest. Quoting http://www.appacademy.io/#p-program http://www.appacademy.io/#p-program : App Academy does not charge any tuition. Instead, you pay us a placement fee only if you find a job as a developer after the program. In that case, the fee is 18% of your first year salary, payable over the first 6 months after you start working. But certainly not all do as you believe they do.
navyrain 13y ago
If you are truly paying 100k for a 4 year (120 weeks) university education, then it works out to be $833 per week. My education at an in-state university cost far less than that. Claiming that "bootcamps" are superior in value or rigor is mendacious.
- gareim 13y ago
  Except you don't have to attend bootcamp for 120 weeks.

I don't know, 10k compared to 100k+ at a proper four year college seems fair to me

codezero 13y ago

It definitely cost me much less than 100k to go to a proper college, and I got more than 60 weeks of instruction.

ivanca 13y ago
Did you get a job at week 65? But anyway this is not the issue, if you pay to learn something so what? What does it haves to be regulated? Is not like food where you may get intoxicated if its bad, is not like cars where you may kill someone if you don't know how to drive; if you need to certify the quality of your employees you can always ask for a college degree and that's it, doesn't mean that everyone haves to ask for it.
- codezero 13y ago
  I know you were trying to make a point, but actually, I got a job my the summer before my Junior year working in a lab on campus. The school had great resources to match people with interesting on-campus positions that aligned with their major. I ended up working at the lab after graduating for several years. > if you pay to learn so what? I agree. > Why does it have to be regulated? I'm curious to know as well. Certainly there are reasons to regulate, if there is some existing system and these schools somehow violate existing policies. It's not clear why they need to be licensed. > Is not like food ... Regulation happens for more reasons than just personal harm. Obviously some argue that it shouldn't, even if it does cause harm :) > like cars ... A big reason for regulation isn't safety, it's taxation, which helps pay for things like roads and maintenance. I worked before and after having a college degree. Simply not including it on my resume worked fine, and as long as my resume was filled with all the things I knew/was skilled at, my degree or lack of only came up as an afterthought. So I agree with you on the last point.
- dalke 13y ago
  There's a long history of fraud in education. Quoting from the article, "it would be relatively easy for a fly-by-night operation to advertise a developer bootcamp, collect tuition, and then provide low-quality education — or skip town before the courses were even set to begin. Even if the current crop of hacker boot camps are perfectly ethical, there’s no guaranteeing the integrity of future entrants into the market." Your own statement reflects undue optimism. Who says that 1) you actually make it to week 65, that 2) you get a job, and 3) it's not a ringer job paying sub-market rates from a firm which pays recruitment fees to the school? The article links to http://www.fastcompany.com/3023456/become-an-ios-developer-in-8-weeks-the-truth-about-hack-schools http://www.fastcompany.com/3023456/become-an-ios-developer-i... , which goes into some details about the negatives. And positives. Markets equilibrate slowly with asymmetric information, which is the case with schools. Regulations done right can prevent malicious people from taking advantage of a temporal lag.
  - welder 13y ago
    > Quoting from the article, "it would be relatively easy for a fly-by-night operation to advertise a developer bootcamp, collect tuition, and then provide low-quality education — or skip town before the courses were even set to begin." That's why these bootcamps only charge students after they complete the course and get an industry job.
    - dalke 13y ago
      Really? Quoting that Fast Company article: "With the support of his wife, he sold his 2004 Volvo for the amount of tuition, and his family of four in the suburbs made do as a one-car household." Quoting http://www.hackbrightacademy.com/faq http://www.hackbrightacademy.com/faq : Tuition is $15,000. If you receive and accept a full-time job offer from one of the companies in our network then we will refund $3,000 of your tuition. If the program doesn't meet your expectations in the first 2 weeks, we'll give you your money back (less your down payment). Yes, there are some which do as you suggest. Quoting http://www.appacademy.io/#p-program http://www.appacademy.io/#p-program : App Academy does not charge any tuition. Instead, you pay us a placement fee only if you find a job as a developer after the program. In that case, the fee is 18% of your first year salary, payable over the first 6 months after you start working. But certainly not all do as you believe they do.

navyrain 13y ago

If you are truly paying 100k for a 4 year (120 weeks) university education, then it works out to be $833 per week. My education at an in-state university cost far less than that. Claiming that "bootcamps" are superior in value or rigor is mendacious.

gareim 13y ago
Except you don't have to attend bootcamp for 120 weeks.