7 ms·

What exactly are they trying to license these bootcamps as? They are basically job placement agencies with training included, right? This is a bit off topic, b

What exactly are they trying to license these bootcamps as? They are basically job placement agencies with training included, right? This is a bit off topic, but the prices that they command seem ludicrous. $1k a week or so, for most of them. I know that a person attending stands to get a high paying job, but 10k seems like a lot.

pbiggar 13y ago
Why is that ludicrous?
- codezero 13y ago
  I said it seems ludicrous. It just tastes bad, but since you asked, I decided to approximate the cost per unit/hour, and it actually costs about the same as California's public community colleges, so I guess this isn't crazy. All the same, California's community college prices are kind of out of hand if you ask me, but since you asked, I guess I take it back, but lacking any actual accreditation or guarantee, it's unclear how valuable such programs are in the long run.
  - DanBC 13y ago
    California's community colleges pay their lecturers.
    - codezero 13y ago
      Definitely not enough if you ask me :) That said, I didn't realize that some (many?) boot camps were using volunteers as instructors. Who would volunteer for such a thing?
jonursenbach 13y ago
I don't know, 10k compared to 100k+ at a proper four year college seems fair to me
- codezero 13y ago
  It definitely cost me much less than 100k to go to a proper college, and I got more than 60 weeks of instruction.
  - ivanca 13y ago
    Did you get a job at week 65? But anyway this is not the issue, if you pay to learn something so what? What does it haves to be regulated? Is not like food where you may get intoxicated if its bad, is not like cars where you may kill someone if you don't know how to drive; if you need to certify the quality of your employees you can always ask for a college degree and that's it, doesn't mean that everyone haves to ask for it.
    - codezero 13y ago
      I know you were trying to make a point, but actually, I got a job my the summer before my Junior year working in a lab on campus. The school had great resources to match people with interesting on-campus positions that aligned with their major. I ended up working at the lab after graduating for several years. > if you pay to learn so what? I agree. > Why does it have to be regulated? I'm curious to know as well. Certainly there are reasons to regulate, if there is some existing system and these schools somehow violate existing policies. It's not clear why they need to be licensed. > Is not like food ... Regulation happens for more reasons than just personal harm. Obviously some argue that it shouldn't, even if it does cause harm :) > like cars ... A big reason for regulation isn't safety, it's taxation, which helps pay for things like roads and maintenance. I worked before and after having a college degree. Simply not including it on my resume worked fine, and as long as my resume was filled with all the things I knew/was skilled at, my degree or lack of only came up as an afterthought. So I agree with you on the last point.
    - dalke 13y ago
      There's a long history of fraud in education. Quoting from the article, "it would be relatively easy for a fly-by-night operation to advertise a developer bootcamp, collect tuition, and then provide low-quality education — or skip town before the courses were even set to begin. Even if the current crop of hacker boot camps are perfectly ethical, there’s no guaranteeing the integrity of future entrants into the market." Your own statement reflects undue optimism. Who says that 1) you actually make it to week 65, that 2) you get a job, and 3) it's not a ringer job paying sub-market rates from a firm which pays recruitment fees to the school? The article links to http://www.fastcompany.com/3023456/become-an-ios-developer-in-8-weeks-the-truth-about-hack-schools http://www.fastcompany.com/3023456/become-an-ios-developer-i... , which goes into some details about the negatives. And positives. Markets equilibrate slowly with asymmetric information, which is the case with schools. Regulations done right can prevent malicious people from taking advantage of a temporal lag.

pbiggar 13y ago

Why is that ludicrous?

codezero 13y ago
I said it seems ludicrous. It just tastes bad, but since you asked, I decided to approximate the cost per unit/hour, and it actually costs about the same as California's public community colleges, so I guess this isn't crazy. All the same, California's community college prices are kind of out of hand if you ask me, but since you asked, I guess I take it back, but lacking any actual accreditation or guarantee, it's unclear how valuable such programs are in the long run.
- DanBC 13y ago
  California's community colleges pay their lecturers.
  - codezero 13y ago
    Definitely not enough if you ask me :) That said, I didn't realize that some (many?) boot camps were using volunteers as instructors. Who would volunteer for such a thing?

jonursenbach 13y ago

I don't know, 10k compared to 100k+ at a proper four year college seems fair to me

codezero 13y ago
It definitely cost me much less than 100k to go to a proper college, and I got more than 60 weeks of instruction.
- ivanca 13y ago
  Did you get a job at week 65? But anyway this is not the issue, if you pay to learn something so what? What does it haves to be regulated? Is not like food where you may get intoxicated if its bad, is not like cars where you may kill someone if you don't know how to drive; if you need to certify the quality of your employees you can always ask for a college degree and that's it, doesn't mean that everyone haves to ask for it.
  - codezero 13y ago
    I know you were trying to make a point, but actually, I got a job my the summer before my Junior year working in a lab on campus. The school had great resources to match people with interesting on-campus positions that aligned with their major. I ended up working at the lab after graduating for several years. > if you pay to learn so what? I agree. > Why does it have to be regulated? I'm curious to know as well. Certainly there are reasons to regulate, if there is some existing system and these schools somehow violate existing policies. It's not clear why they need to be licensed. > Is not like food ... Regulation happens for more reasons than just personal harm. Obviously some argue that it shouldn't, even if it does cause harm :) > like cars ... A big reason for regulation isn't safety, it's taxation, which helps pay for things like roads and maintenance. I worked before and after having a college degree. Simply not including it on my resume worked fine, and as long as my resume was filled with all the things I knew/was skilled at, my degree or lack of only came up as an afterthought. So I agree with you on the last point.
  - dalke 13y ago
    There's a long history of fraud in education. Quoting from the article, "it would be relatively easy for a fly-by-night operation to advertise a developer bootcamp, collect tuition, and then provide low-quality education — or skip town before the courses were even set to begin. Even if the current crop of hacker boot camps are perfectly ethical, there’s no guaranteeing the integrity of future entrants into the market." Your own statement reflects undue optimism. Who says that 1) you actually make it to week 65, that 2) you get a job, and 3) it's not a ringer job paying sub-market rates from a firm which pays recruitment fees to the school? The article links to http://www.fastcompany.com/3023456/become-an-ios-developer-in-8-weeks-the-truth-about-hack-schools http://www.fastcompany.com/3023456/become-an-ios-developer-i... , which goes into some details about the negatives. And positives. Markets equilibrate slowly with asymmetric information, which is the case with schools. Regulations done right can prevent malicious people from taking advantage of a temporal lag.