13 ms·
Imitate. We are imperfect mirrors
- elliots 13y agoThis is an insight shared by many artists. My favourite, and perhaps the most blunt, take on it is by Picasso: "What does it mean for a painter to paint in the manner of So-and-So or to actually imitate someone else? What's wrong with that? On the contrary, it's a good idea. You should constantly try to paint like someone else. But the thing is, you can't! You would like to. You try. But it turns out to be a botch… And at the very moment you make a botch of it that you're yourself."
- sivers 13y agoThanks for this. I hadn't heard the full quote before. People often quote the “great artists steal” line from him - including Steve Jobs - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CW0DUg63lqU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CW0DUg63lqU - but the fuller idea is much more interesting.
- gruseom 13y agoThe "great artists steal" line comes not from Picasso but from T.S. Eliot. Lots of previous discussion about this: https://hn.algolia.com/?q=picasso+eliot#!/comment/forever/0/picasso https://hn.algolia.com/?q=picasso+eliot#!/comment/forever/0/... eliot The line that elliots (not to be confused with T.S. Eliot!) quoted turns out to be authentic, though—or at least there's some evidence for it: http://books.google.com/books?id=OJTKZeXaUvkC&lpg=PA53&dq=%22You%20should%20constantly%20try%20to%20paint%20like%20someone%20else%22&pg=PA53#v=onepage&q=%22You%20should%20constantly%20try%20to%20paint%20like%20someone%20else%22&f=false http://books.google.com/books?id=OJTKZeXaUvkC&lpg=PA53&dq=%2...
- deleted 13y ago[deleted]
- sushirain 13y agoJobs copied it from Picasso who stole it from Eliot ;)
- deleted 13y ago[deleted]
- ilhank 13y agoFor example see Michael Bublé.
- rhizome 13y agoBuble and Zynga aren't trying to do anything new.
- TillE 13y agoI stole an idea for a game which has yet to be implemented by the person who briefly mentioned it a couple years ago. It inspired me, and because the idea was not some highly detailed plan, I know my conception of it will be completely different from that of the original idea-haver. People talk about idea vs. implementation, but the missing component is the vision that drives and expands that initial idea. That's obviously true in anything related to creative work, but I think it holds true almost everywhere, except in utterly trivial cases.
- deleted 13y ago[deleted]
- 31reasons 13y agoZynga lives by this advice :)
- princeb 13y agohttp://www.geek.com/games/blizzards-hearthstone-instantly-plagiarized-in-china-long-before-release-1582550/ http://www.geek.com/games/blizzards-hearthstone-instantly-pl...
- CmonDev 13y agoThey tend to be 'perfect mirrors' though. I have heard stories about flash and android games being de-compiled to "mirror" the code and visual/sound assets as well. AFAIK it's called "respectful borrowing".
- graeme 13y agoI've seen this work in a limited scale in my own venture. I started an lsat prep website, http://lsathacks.com http://lsathacks.com Almost everything about the site was inspired by reference examples within the industry. And yet the site is unique, because I have my own take on things. I saw the principles underlying various sites, and redid them in my own style. It's still early days, but initial results are positive. I'd have gotten nowhere if I stubbornly insisted on only original ideas.
- girvo 13y agoI've been learning music production. Do you know how? By creating copies of tracks that inspire me, from scratch. I learnt how to program websites when I was 14. Do you know how? I copied a site a loved and made it my own, from scratch. This is simply my favourite way of learning. Whenever I lack inspiration for something, I go copy, recreate, adjust. Because hey, at the end of the day, everything is a remix!
- 3pt14159 13y agoThey really should teach this lesson to more people. It took me a very, very long time to learn it too.
- infectoid 13y agoTo further your point, most people have probably heard this one already regarding Hunter S. Thompson. > While working, he used a typewriter to copy F. Scott Fitzgerald's The Great Gatsby and Ernest Hemingway's A Farewell to Arms in order to learn about the writing styles of the authors. Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hunter_S._Thompson#Early_journalism_career http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hunter_S._Thompson#Early_journa...
- girvo 13y agoYes! That's where I got the idea from originally, it was mentioned in Kingdom of Fear, one of my favourite books by/about Hunter S. Thompson -- who is one of my all time favourite authors.
- frik 13y agoWhat applications can you suggestion for music production? * Scorewriter program like Sibelius, Finale? * or a digital audio workstation like FL Studio, Cubase, Pro Tools? Maybe someone also knows some good blogs, tutorials for beginners.
- girvo 13y agoFL Studio is great, although I learnt with Adobe Audition -- though, I learnt when it was called Cool Edit Pro, heh. FL is what my brother and I use to produce our tracks nowadays, and I master them (and built sounds and synths) in REAPER on my Mac. I build beats in Hydrogen, and sometimes I play around with LMMS on my *nix laptop! In terms of tutorials, honestly, YouTube was enough for the basics, and from that I just started trying to copy other songs. Hope that helps at all!
- armaansarkar 13y agoI recommend reading Austin Kleon's 'Steal Like an Artist' for a more thorough discussion: http://amzn.com/B0074QGGK6 http://amzn.com/B0074QGGK6
- codelucas 13y agoI love this! When learning to program, I wrote a clone of a basic java game by Notch: Mine: http://codelucas.com/pages/island-overlord.html http://codelucas.com/pages/island-overlord.html His: https://mojang.com/notch/ld12/breaking/ https://mojang.com/notch/ld12/breaking/ The code: Mine: https://github.com/codelucas/islandoverlord https://github.com/codelucas/islandoverlord His: https://mojang.com/notch/ld12/breaking/BreakingTheTower.zip https://mojang.com/notch/ld12/breaking/BreakingTheTower.zip I also "cloned" a well known python article extraction library (goose) on Github with my own api & new functionality and my repo ended up doing super well (even better than the original). https://github.com/codelucas/newspaper https://github.com/codelucas/newspaper vs. https://github.com/grangier/python-goose https://github.com/grangier/python-goose
- RankingMember 13y agoNot realizing this has hamstrung my thought process quite a bit. I've killed a lot of ideas because I felt they were too similar to others, but really, looking back, they weren't. Everything we do is derivative, even the things we consider original, as they're all built on a common scattershot mass of knowledge. If we all went to make something as simple as a shampoo bottle, we'd get a lot of different, completely unique concepts. This is worth remembering.
- viach 13y agoI think author should stop reading "The Chronicles of Amber" for a while :)
- shurcooL 13y agoI agree. This is why all my personal source code is open, and why I think all the copyrights and what not potentially do the human race more of a disservice than they help.
- higherpurpose 13y agoThe obligatory Everything is a remix series: http://everythingisaremix.info/watch-the-series/ http://everythingisaremix.info/watch-the-series/
- prawn 13y agoWhen stuck in a design rut, try copying something else. Where you end up will generally look nothing like the original. Sometimes you just need the push.
- chrisdevereux 13y agoMost of my best ideas come from misunderstanding other ideas. One thing I'd add to this: Replicate work that you respect and appreciate, not work that seems to be successful. To me, that's the difference between copying and stealing in the often-quoted "Great artists steal..." line.
- namenotrequired 13y agoThis is my exact experience as well. I used to experience it as a songwriter too - finding a new interpretation to a line in a song I liked was my favourite source of inspiration for my own songs.
- thenomad 13y agoYep. Several of my most successful films have come from explicitly attempting to imitate someone else's style. And I've never once had anyone accuse me of copying - indeed, I'm not sure anyone has ever realised that I was riffing on another filmmaker without me explaining it beforehand.
- pmcpinto 13y agoThis reminds me an amazing quote by Jim Jarmush: Nothing is original. Steal from anywhere that resonates with inspiration or fuels your imagination. Devour old films, new films, music, books, paintings, photographs, poems, dreams, random conversations, architecture, bridges, street signs, trees, clouds, bodies of water, light and shadows. Select only things to steal from that speak directly to your soul. If you do this, your work (and theft) will be authentic. Authenticity is invaluable; originality is non-existent. And don’t bother concealing your thievery - celebrate it if you feel like it. In any case, always remember what Jean-Luc Godard said: “It’s not where you take things from - it’s where you take them to.
- bitwize 13y agoReminds me of a quote from one of the XXIst Century's great art intellectuals: "All art is either plagiarism or revolution." --Shia LaBeouf Seriously, though, when it comes to art and code I've always found a useful policy to be "find somebody good and do what they're doing". For example, ever since I first dug into NetBSD code I've found it written in an exemplary style of C, which I strive to imitate myself when I work in C. I may never get it just right, but it's made me a better C programmer than I was, or at least one with a clearer style.
- normloman 13y agoI fear most of you will take this advice the wrong way. We all know that nothing's completely original. You shouldn't be reinventing the wheel with every program you write. But follow this advice too closely and you'll end up with a clone. A program with all the good qualities of its predecessor, and all the flaws too. Your clone will be competing with other clones for control of the market. And so long as you're competing on the same turf, you'll be at a disadvantage. Big established companies rule the market for time tested software. Their program came out before your clone, and they've had lots of time to grow their business. They have a bigger research budget than you, and a bigger marketing department. Besides, everybody already uses their product. You ever hear of network effects? Start with something that's been done before. But take it somewhere new. Find an emerging market for an established technology. One the big players ignore. Historically, that's where startups have had the advantage.