4 ms·

I know some people on the Windows team. My immediate reaction when I tried the beta was, "Oh shit, I have to let them know what someone has done to their work b

I know some people on the Windows team. My immediate reaction when I tried the beta was, "Oh shit, I have to let them know what someone has done to their work before it's too late! The public is about to see this!". Obviously, after half a second of thought, I realized they already know and use what I was seeing for the first time. But it was so shockingly bad that I instinctively thought it was some kind of mistake that they must not have seen yet. When I did talk to them next, it was more along the lines of expressing condolences. I thought since it was objectively bad, it goes without saying that they also think it is bad, and some internal politics led to what was released, ruining their hard work. To my surprise, they defended it and claimed to really like it. I found this so baffling that I've since been struggling with several theories; "either they are crazy or I am crazy, I'm not sure which anymore", some kind of Stockholm Syndrome, or something contaminating the water around Redmond. I ruled out the possibility that it's me who is crazy after a few rounds of a game where I hand my laptop to a coworker, who uses windows exclusively (and one even develops drivers for it), and told them to try and close Internet Explorer and shut down the computer. Invariably the result was trying for 5 or 10 minutes before walking away in frustration, sometimes with colorful language.

derefr 13y ago
> told them to try and close Internet Explorer and shut down the computer I've found Windows 8 actually works quite well if you use the keyboard exclusively for navigation. - The Metro "start menu" (that's really all it is) works great if you use it mostly by searching (press Windows key, type, arrow keys, enter to launch.) - The Win+X accelerator menu has made me faster maintenance tasks than I ever was in W7. - Your puzzle: focus the Desktop; press Alt+F4. (This has always worked, if you're curious.) I think this might be why people within Microsoft don't "feel the pain" of Windows 8: it works great with a tablet, or with a keyboard... just not with a mouse.
- redidas 13y ago
  Isn't using a keyboard an alternative navigation? Basically you're bypassing the UI presented on the screen with shortcuts. It's not a very strong argument for Windows 8 working well, but maybe the opposite.
  - lurkinggrue 13y ago
    Most of the "Windows 8 Works great" arguments are along the lines of how to bypass it. The whole "Install start 8 and it's awesome" arguments just show the UI was a failure.
aleem 13y ago
Not that I'm saying it applies to the employees but the term you are looking for is Endowment Effect[1]. [1] en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Endowment_effect
sdegutis 13y ago
I don't buy this argument at all. Just because there are new ways of doing things doesn't make it bad. This kind of attitude kills innovation. I just got Windows 8 last week. I found the vast majority of functionality I needed without any help, in just a few minutes of playing around with it. My brother (who had Windows 8 for a few months) showed me just a couple more things, but none of them were necessary, only more convenient ways of doing the same things I'd already figured out how to do.
- lawnchair_larry 13y ago
  I don't understand the relevance of the sentence: "Just because there are new ways of doing things doesn't make it bad." Not one single person who dislikes the Windows 8 interface has ever cited that as the reason. And there's no way you figured out how to close a metro app without looking it up.
  - lurkinggrue 13y ago
    When I started using the Beta I couldn't get windows snap to work. Spent an hour trying to get it to work and just couldn't get two metro apps on the screen at once. Was it my dual monitor setup? Was it a bug? No, I didn't have enough screen resolution and the os wouldn't mention this fact and it took a ton of googling to find out that was the case. Yeah, the OS was being obtuse.
  - sdegutis 13y ago
    Alt-F4, just like always.
- lurkinggrue 13y ago
  It may be new but it wasn't good. I love getting beta software and trying out new ways of doing things but if you have to go though hoops to do basic tasks it isn't good.
lurkinggrue 13y ago
I remember watching the video on the Building Windows blog when they showed off the interface for the first time. Sitting there stunned thinking it had to be a joke, it looked horrible. They were proudly showing off how your could multitask TWO whole programs and I wondered what they were smoking.
- dwild 13y ago
  Actually the multitasking is really useful, when you are on a tablet. Metro is only great for a touchscreen, that's all. They tried to use it for desktop too, which was the big mistake. On my Android phone I can't really chat on Skype and surf the web at the same time, I need to switch from one to another every time. On my Windows tablet (the Asus Transformer Book T100) I can do that easily. Their big mistake was to market it as a desktop OS. They made a tablet OS, that's all.
  - cookiecaper 13y ago
    The unification argument is compelling, but there had to have been a better way to go about it than "OK everyone, use your workstations like tablets and everything will be A-OK! The PC is dead, you know." Someone at MS was trying a little too hard to be ahead of the curve.
    - dwild 13y ago
      Yeah I completely agree with you, MS was trying to be ahead of the curve and they failed miserably. Different input devices need different visual interface. What I'm saying is essentially that Metro is amazing for a tablet, way better than Windows 7, but it's disgusting with a mouse.

derefr 13y ago

> told them to try and close Internet Explorer and shut down the computer I've found Windows 8 actually works quite well if you use the keyboard exclusively for navigation. - The Metro "start menu" (that's really all it is) works great if you use it mostly by searching (press Windows key, type, arrow keys, enter to launch.) - The Win+X accelerator menu has made me faster maintenance tasks than I ever was in W7. - Your puzzle: focus the Desktop; press Alt+F4. (This has always worked, if you're curious.) I think this might be why people within Microsoft don't "feel the pain" of Windows 8: it works great with a tablet, or with a keyboard... just not with a mouse.

redidas 13y ago
Isn't using a keyboard an alternative navigation? Basically you're bypassing the UI presented on the screen with shortcuts. It's not a very strong argument for Windows 8 working well, but maybe the opposite.
- lurkinggrue 13y ago
  Most of the "Windows 8 Works great" arguments are along the lines of how to bypass it. The whole "Install start 8 and it's awesome" arguments just show the UI was a failure.

aleem 13y ago

Not that I'm saying it applies to the employees but the term you are looking for is Endowment Effect[1]. [1] en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Endowment_effect

sdegutis 13y ago

I don't buy this argument at all. Just because there are new ways of doing things doesn't make it bad. This kind of attitude kills innovation. I just got Windows 8 last week. I found the vast majority of functionality I needed without any help, in just a few minutes of playing around with it. My brother (who had Windows 8 for a few months) showed me just a couple more things, but none of them were necessary, only more convenient ways of doing the same things I'd already figured out how to do.

lawnchair_larry 13y ago
I don't understand the relevance of the sentence: "Just because there are new ways of doing things doesn't make it bad." Not one single person who dislikes the Windows 8 interface has ever cited that as the reason. And there's no way you figured out how to close a metro app without looking it up.
- lurkinggrue 13y ago
  When I started using the Beta I couldn't get windows snap to work. Spent an hour trying to get it to work and just couldn't get two metro apps on the screen at once. Was it my dual monitor setup? Was it a bug? No, I didn't have enough screen resolution and the os wouldn't mention this fact and it took a ton of googling to find out that was the case. Yeah, the OS was being obtuse.
- sdegutis 13y ago
  Alt-F4, just like always.
lurkinggrue 13y ago
It may be new but it wasn't good. I love getting beta software and trying out new ways of doing things but if you have to go though hoops to do basic tasks it isn't good.

lurkinggrue 13y ago

I remember watching the video on the Building Windows blog when they showed off the interface for the first time. Sitting there stunned thinking it had to be a joke, it looked horrible. They were proudly showing off how your could multitask TWO whole programs and I wondered what they were smoking.

dwild 13y ago
Actually the multitasking is really useful, when you are on a tablet. Metro is only great for a touchscreen, that's all. They tried to use it for desktop too, which was the big mistake. On my Android phone I can't really chat on Skype and surf the web at the same time, I need to switch from one to another every time. On my Windows tablet (the Asus Transformer Book T100) I can do that easily. Their big mistake was to market it as a desktop OS. They made a tablet OS, that's all.
- cookiecaper 13y ago
  The unification argument is compelling, but there had to have been a better way to go about it than "OK everyone, use your workstations like tablets and everything will be A-OK! The PC is dead, you know." Someone at MS was trying a little too hard to be ahead of the curve.
  - dwild 13y ago
    Yeah I completely agree with you, MS was trying to be ahead of the curve and they failed miserably. Different input devices need different visual interface. What I'm saying is essentially that Metro is amazing for a tablet, way better than Windows 7, but it's disgusting with a mouse.