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Passion is critical. I wouldn't hire someone if I didn't think they were passionate about building good products. Other passions can tell me something interes

Passion is critical. I wouldn't hire someone if I didn't think they were passionate about building good products. Other passions can tell me something interesting about them, but that's the one that counts since that's what I would be hiring them to do. Maturity is also critical. And passion and maturity are not at all mutually exclusive. If there are misconceptions about passion floating around the memespace, then you are certainly right to challenge them, but let's not throw the baby out with the bathwater.

tptacek 13y ago
If a candidate is effective and competent, why does it matter if they're passionate?
- CamperBob2 13y ago
  Because the kid in the basement down the street you're competing with -- the one you don't even know exists until it's way too late -- is effective, competent, and passionate.
  - tptacek 13y ago
    That response also works if you replace "passionate" with "can moonwalk".
    - CamperBob2 13y ago
      No, it doesn't, because moonwalking isn't what gets you through those 18-hour hacking sessions.
      - mathgladiator 13y ago
        Are you sure about that?
        deleted 13y ago
        [deleted]
- ScottBurson 13y ago
  This is a good question. I had to think about it a bit -- at the risk of not posting a reply in time for you to see it. I think it's because building great products isn't just a matter of execution. It's also, to some extent, an art. I have trouble imagining someone being effective and competent with absolutely no passion. I will grant, though, that there are competent people who are more passionate, and those who are less so. I think a successful organization could have a blend of people across the passion scale, but I don't think one could build a successful product business without at least a few people who are passionate about what they're doing. Maybe in other kinds of businesses you could; I don't know.
  - tptacek 13y ago
    If you can, in your hiring process, get a decent prediction of effectiveness and competence, and stipulating that passion does not connote effectiveness and competence, is it smart to screen for passion?
    - ScottBurson 13y ago
      Yes, I think it is. Given two candidates of equal competence, I'd naturally prefer the one with the greater passion for the particular kind of work the job would entail. Does that really seem strange? Of course it gets trickier when the more competent one seems the less passionate. Then it's a question of how much to weight the two dimensions (along with whatever others one is considering). I have no magic formula here; I think it depends on the circumstances. There seems to be a subtext here that work sample tests give no indication of passion. I don't think that's true; when I've given people programming exercises, I think the craftsmanship of the code (is it well-modularized, well-documented, nicely indented, etc.) is indicative of their passion. Competence, to me, is more about whether the code works. So yes, I'm using craftsmanship as a proxy for passion, so I suppose next you'll ask, why not just go for craftsmanship? The point we seem to be coming to is that passion is difficult or impossible to measure directly, so why not stick to qualities that are more measurable? I don't think everything important is easy to measure.
    - baruch 13y ago
danielweber 13y ago
I once watched management totally destroy a developer's passion. As bad as management's actions were for me, the absolute worst thing was watching the change in this guy. Before, he would constantly seek out every way to improve the customer experience and go above and beyond. He turned into a guy who literally said "I don't give a shit." Almost every person I've ever worked and every job with has been passionate about doing their best, unless actively stopped from doing it. The one or two who didn't could not have been filtered out by any kind of interview question because they knew how to bluff their way through the process. But you can tell after working with them for a few months that they just try to do the minimum necessary to not get fired. An attempt to recruit for passion is a bad sign. You can't recruit for good morale, either.[1] Either your company is a nice place to work or it isn't. Either your company will bring out the passion that almost all developers have or it will destroy it. [1] Yes, there are assholes who destroy morale, just like there are total clock-punchers. Sometimes you can tell by having a normal human conversation, and a normal human conversation should of course be part of any interview. If you are are trying to find the liars, assholes, frauds, and professional slackers, you need to realize that 1) they have you vastly outmatched in this contest unless maybe you are bringing in psychologists trained in this, 2) there is a social cost from treating your prospective candidates as if they are one of these things.

tptacek 13y ago

If a candidate is effective and competent, why does it matter if they're passionate?

CamperBob2 13y ago
Because the kid in the basement down the street you're competing with -- the one you don't even know exists until it's way too late -- is effective, competent, and passionate.
- tptacek 13y ago
  That response also works if you replace "passionate" with "can moonwalk".
  - CamperBob2 13y ago
    No, it doesn't, because moonwalking isn't what gets you through those 18-hour hacking sessions.
    - mathgladiator 13y ago
      Are you sure about that?
      - deleted 13y ago
        [deleted]
ScottBurson 13y ago
This is a good question. I had to think about it a bit -- at the risk of not posting a reply in time for you to see it. I think it's because building great products isn't just a matter of execution. It's also, to some extent, an art. I have trouble imagining someone being effective and competent with absolutely no passion. I will grant, though, that there are competent people who are more passionate, and those who are less so. I think a successful organization could have a blend of people across the passion scale, but I don't think one could build a successful product business without at least a few people who are passionate about what they're doing. Maybe in other kinds of businesses you could; I don't know.
- tptacek 13y ago
  If you can, in your hiring process, get a decent prediction of effectiveness and competence, and stipulating that passion does not connote effectiveness and competence, is it smart to screen for passion?
  - ScottBurson 13y ago
    Yes, I think it is. Given two candidates of equal competence, I'd naturally prefer the one with the greater passion for the particular kind of work the job would entail. Does that really seem strange? Of course it gets trickier when the more competent one seems the less passionate. Then it's a question of how much to weight the two dimensions (along with whatever others one is considering). I have no magic formula here; I think it depends on the circumstances. There seems to be a subtext here that work sample tests give no indication of passion. I don't think that's true; when I've given people programming exercises, I think the craftsmanship of the code (is it well-modularized, well-documented, nicely indented, etc.) is indicative of their passion. Competence, to me, is more about whether the code works. So yes, I'm using craftsmanship as a proxy for passion, so I suppose next you'll ask, why not just go for craftsmanship? The point we seem to be coming to is that passion is difficult or impossible to measure directly, so why not stick to qualities that are more measurable? I don't think everything important is easy to measure.
  - baruch 13y ago

danielweber 13y ago

I once watched management totally destroy a developer's passion. As bad as management's actions were for me, the absolute worst thing was watching the change in this guy. Before, he would constantly seek out every way to improve the customer experience and go above and beyond. He turned into a guy who literally said "I don't give a shit." Almost every person I've ever worked and every job with has been passionate about doing their best, unless actively stopped from doing it. The one or two who didn't could not have been filtered out by any kind of interview question because they knew how to bluff their way through the process. But you can tell after working with them for a few months that they just try to do the minimum necessary to not get fired. An attempt to recruit for passion is a bad sign. You can't recruit for good morale, either.[1] Either your company is a nice place to work or it isn't. Either your company will bring out the passion that almost all developers have or it will destroy it. [1] Yes, there are assholes who destroy morale, just like there are total clock-punchers. Sometimes you can tell by having a normal human conversation, and a normal human conversation should of course be part of any interview. If you are are trying to find the liars, assholes, frauds, and professional slackers, you need to realize that 1) they have you vastly outmatched in this contest unless maybe you are bringing in psychologists trained in this, 2) there is a social cost from treating your prospective candidates as if they are one of these things.