4 ms·

Disclaimer: i'm a Mac user and have nothing against Apple. Said that I guess we (and the companies) should start thinking if this kind of 'collaboration' or co

by barredo 17y ago

Disclaimer: i'm a Mac user and have nothing against Apple. Said that I guess we (and the companies) should start thinking if this kind of 'collaboration' or contracts with Chinese companies are not only profitable (that is the main -if not only- reason) but good for China, the Chinese company, the Chinese workers, the non-Chinese company and the end user. Because I guess, we are exploiting the workers in a country with a dictatorship just to get cheap gadgets, toys and such. And yes, I would say Apple is a bit to be blamed for this. Not that Apple were aware or that Apple would approve these (I'm 100% sure it doesn't) actions. But, if this Chinese company -and others- keep their contracts with American or European companies although things like keep happening (At least we know about this case! How many of them have happened?)... they (the 'first world companies') will become (if they are not already) part of the problem. ps. Sorry for my English (I'm from Spain and well...)

jacquesm 17y ago
Apple is part of the problem here because they are positively anal about their product releases being kept secret to the point where they will sue left right and center if they suspect some kind of breach. Why the cult of 'new' is so crazy about having the latest gadgets and how much that drives sales is totally beyond me. If it works and I need it I'll buy it, otherwise you can keep it. I never realized how bad it really was until a good friend - who shall remain nameless - vowed to queue to be one of the first to have an iphone. Seriously, who cares. People think they're cool because they have cool stuff, not because they do cool stuff.
- plinkplonk 17y ago
  "People think they're cool because they have cool stuff, not because they do cool stuff." Very succinct expression of an idea that has been rattling around in my head for a while but I couldn't express except very verbosely. This is one of the reasons I read HN. People whose writing skill makes me think "I wish I could write as clearly as that".
- allenbrunson 17y ago
  When Apple announces a new product, it is almost always available for sale that very day. Almost everybody is hearing about it for the first time. The big wave of excitement hits, which probably leads to a big first few weeks of sales. Many (most?) other companies have talked a product to death by the time it is actually for sale. There is no excitement at this point, it has all been dissipated away. Consumers don't see much of a need to buy it right away. Maybe they'll forget about it altogether before making the decision. I'd say this works pretty well for Apple. You are trivializing their methods in an ugly way.
  - geoka 17y ago
    "Many (most?) other companies have talked a product to death by the time it is actually for sale. There is no excitement at this point, it has all been dissipated away. Consumers don't see much of a need to buy it right away." Are you saying that expo demos and previews for the media actually hurt sales? I always thought manufacturers do it to build up interest and excitement; this way when the product is released everybody is rushing to buy it. Look at the games industry, for example. It seems to work. Why Apple thinks it works the other way around, is beyond me.
    - allenbrunson 17y ago
      i was going to answer this, but electromagnetic already replied with everything i would have said. heh! i'll add one thing. an enormous amount of work often goes into products that are killed before release. evidence exists that this has happened many times within apple. anticipated products that get cancelled leave a bad taste in people's mouths. if you don't announce until the product is for sale, you've automatically guarded against vaporware.
    - electromagnetic 17y ago
      I saw advertisements for the new 2010 vehicles in January of 2009. The company either lost a 2009 sale from me, or made me not care about the 2010 vehicle at all because it's old news long before it's out. For some products a slow trickle of information helps, however it's generally the exception than the rule (I'd say the movie industry is wholly an exception to this). Windows 7 is faltering because it's the alternative to Vista and now the bad scuff marks of Vista are appearing on 7, instead they could have had 7 appear suddenly and have sold millions of copies before anyone even heard a bad word. Apple has major flaws sometimes, the iPod Nano was a flat out disaster in Europe, but it turned into a disaster after they'd sold millions of copies and not before they'd sold a single copy. If test versions of the Nano had broken en masse even the hardcore Apple fans wouldn't have touched it. Apple thinks it works the other way around is because it does work the other way around. Announcing a product early can set it up for failure, especially today when products can go from concept to market in less than six months. If I announced in Q2 2008 that I had a product coming out at the start of Q4 2009, it gives nearly 18 months to challenge me. It doesn't help that there's a nasty habit of identical products coming out at the same time and if you announce a unique feature early, you're identical by release.
LogicHoleFlaw 17y ago
I'm of a torn mind on this subject. There is really a lot of tragedy in the living circumstances of the ordinary people creating so many of our mindless consumer products. But at the same time, the jobs creating such products are highly coveted because they beat the hell out of manual labor on a backcountry farm. When you've got such an enormous population bootstrapping into a modern industrialized economy there are huge disparities while the modernization process takes place. I don't think that assigning blame to Apple is warranted here. Apple certainly is horrified at what has happened - not just due to bad PR, but because an engineer took his life over a consumer gadget. There are no easy answers here. My hope is that within a few generations the societal earthquakes will settle down with respect to modernization. Even then though, what does it take to overcome millennia of societal acceptance of suicide?
- lallysingh 17y ago
  Indeed, progress is a float, not a bool. And the sign is dependent on the arbitrary selection of evaluative criteria.
jacoblyles 17y ago
To be a little picky, China is not a dictatorship. Rather, it is a one-party state, complete with internal dissent and power struggles. Chinese leadership experiences more turnover than, say, North Korea. Edit: What, you don't believe me? Try this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Politics_of_the_People%27s_Republic_of_China http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Politics_of_the_People%27s_Repu... Hu Jintao has been President since 2004, succeeding Jiang Zemin who became President in 1993. Some dictatorship. Not everything non-western is equivalent. That's just sloppy thinking.

by barredo 17y ago

jacquesm 17y ago

Apple is part of the problem here because they are positively anal about their product releases being kept secret to the point where they will sue left right and center if they suspect some kind of breach. Why the cult of 'new' is so crazy about having the latest gadgets and how much that drives sales is totally beyond me. If it works and I need it I'll buy it, otherwise you can keep it. I never realized how bad it really was until a good friend - who shall remain nameless - vowed to queue to be one of the first to have an iphone. Seriously, who cares. People think they're cool because they have cool stuff, not because they do cool stuff.

plinkplonk 17y ago
"People think they're cool because they have cool stuff, not because they do cool stuff." Very succinct expression of an idea that has been rattling around in my head for a while but I couldn't express except very verbosely. This is one of the reasons I read HN. People whose writing skill makes me think "I wish I could write as clearly as that".
allenbrunson 17y ago
When Apple announces a new product, it is almost always available for sale that very day. Almost everybody is hearing about it for the first time. The big wave of excitement hits, which probably leads to a big first few weeks of sales. Many (most?) other companies have talked a product to death by the time it is actually for sale. There is no excitement at this point, it has all been dissipated away. Consumers don't see much of a need to buy it right away. Maybe they'll forget about it altogether before making the decision. I'd say this works pretty well for Apple. You are trivializing their methods in an ugly way.
- geoka 17y ago
  "Many (most?) other companies have talked a product to death by the time it is actually for sale. There is no excitement at this point, it has all been dissipated away. Consumers don't see much of a need to buy it right away." Are you saying that expo demos and previews for the media actually hurt sales? I always thought manufacturers do it to build up interest and excitement; this way when the product is released everybody is rushing to buy it. Look at the games industry, for example. It seems to work. Why Apple thinks it works the other way around, is beyond me.
  - allenbrunson 17y ago
    i was going to answer this, but electromagnetic already replied with everything i would have said. heh! i'll add one thing. an enormous amount of work often goes into products that are killed before release. evidence exists that this has happened many times within apple. anticipated products that get cancelled leave a bad taste in people's mouths. if you don't announce until the product is for sale, you've automatically guarded against vaporware.
  - electromagnetic 17y ago
    I saw advertisements for the new 2010 vehicles in January of 2009. The company either lost a 2009 sale from me, or made me not care about the 2010 vehicle at all because it's old news long before it's out. For some products a slow trickle of information helps, however it's generally the exception than the rule (I'd say the movie industry is wholly an exception to this). Windows 7 is faltering because it's the alternative to Vista and now the bad scuff marks of Vista are appearing on 7, instead they could have had 7 appear suddenly and have sold millions of copies before anyone even heard a bad word. Apple has major flaws sometimes, the iPod Nano was a flat out disaster in Europe, but it turned into a disaster after they'd sold millions of copies and not before they'd sold a single copy. If test versions of the Nano had broken en masse even the hardcore Apple fans wouldn't have touched it. Apple thinks it works the other way around is because it does work the other way around. Announcing a product early can set it up for failure, especially today when products can go from concept to market in less than six months. If I announced in Q2 2008 that I had a product coming out at the start of Q4 2009, it gives nearly 18 months to challenge me. It doesn't help that there's a nasty habit of identical products coming out at the same time and if you announce a unique feature early, you're identical by release.

LogicHoleFlaw 17y ago

I'm of a torn mind on this subject. There is really a lot of tragedy in the living circumstances of the ordinary people creating so many of our mindless consumer products. But at the same time, the jobs creating such products are highly coveted because they beat the hell out of manual labor on a backcountry farm. When you've got such an enormous population bootstrapping into a modern industrialized economy there are huge disparities while the modernization process takes place. I don't think that assigning blame to Apple is warranted here. Apple certainly is horrified at what has happened - not just due to bad PR, but because an engineer took his life over a consumer gadget. There are no easy answers here. My hope is that within a few generations the societal earthquakes will settle down with respect to modernization. Even then though, what does it take to overcome millennia of societal acceptance of suicide?

lallysingh 17y ago
Indeed, progress is a float, not a bool. And the sign is dependent on the arbitrary selection of evaluative criteria.

jacoblyles 17y ago

To be a little picky, China is not a dictatorship. Rather, it is a one-party state, complete with internal dissent and power struggles. Chinese leadership experiences more turnover than, say, North Korea. Edit: What, you don't believe me? Try this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Politics_of_the_People%27s_Republic_of_China http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Politics_of_the_People%27s_Repu... Hu Jintao has been President since 2004, succeeding Jiang Zemin who became President in 1993. Some dictatorship. Not everything non-western is equivalent. That's just sloppy thinking.