5 ms·

I find it interesting that the article seems to be pointing the finger of blame at Apple-however I can't Apple really being to blame here. This seems like more

by a2tech 17y ago

I find it interesting that the article seems to be pointing the finger of blame at Apple-however I can't Apple really being to blame here. This seems like more a problem with an extremely stressed individual and an extremely controlling corporation that is employing him. Something tells me that if the guy had lost ANY secret product (not just Apple's) the pressure applied to him would have been immense.

deleted 17y ago
[deleted]
fauigerzigerk 17y ago
The article first and foremost blames chinese society and government. Apple's secrecy is mentioned only as a side note without assigning any blame.
barredo 17y ago
Disclaimer: i'm a Mac user and have nothing against Apple. Said that I guess we (and the companies) should start thinking if this kind of 'collaboration' or contracts with Chinese companies are not only profitable (that is the main -if not only- reason) but good for China, the Chinese company, the Chinese workers, the non-Chinese company and the end user. Because I guess, we are exploiting the workers in a country with a dictatorship just to get cheap gadgets, toys and such. And yes, I would say Apple is a bit to be blamed for this. Not that Apple were aware or that Apple would approve these (I'm 100% sure it doesn't) actions. But, if this Chinese company -and others- keep their contracts with American or European companies although things like keep happening (At least we know about this case! How many of them have happened?)... they (the 'first world companies') will become (if they are not already) part of the problem. ps. Sorry for my English (I'm from Spain and well...)
- jacquesm 17y ago
  Apple is part of the problem here because they are positively anal about their product releases being kept secret to the point where they will sue left right and center if they suspect some kind of breach. Why the cult of 'new' is so crazy about having the latest gadgets and how much that drives sales is totally beyond me. If it works and I need it I'll buy it, otherwise you can keep it. I never realized how bad it really was until a good friend - who shall remain nameless - vowed to queue to be one of the first to have an iphone. Seriously, who cares. People think they're cool because they have cool stuff, not because they do cool stuff.
  - plinkplonk 17y ago
    "People think they're cool because they have cool stuff, not because they do cool stuff." Very succinct expression of an idea that has been rattling around in my head for a while but I couldn't express except very verbosely. This is one of the reasons I read HN. People whose writing skill makes me think "I wish I could write as clearly as that".
  - allenbrunson 17y ago
    When Apple announces a new product, it is almost always available for sale that very day. Almost everybody is hearing about it for the first time. The big wave of excitement hits, which probably leads to a big first few weeks of sales. Many (most?) other companies have talked a product to death by the time it is actually for sale. There is no excitement at this point, it has all been dissipated away. Consumers don't see much of a need to buy it right away. Maybe they'll forget about it altogether before making the decision. I'd say this works pretty well for Apple. You are trivializing their methods in an ugly way.
    - geoka 17y ago
      "Many (most?) other companies have talked a product to death by the time it is actually for sale. There is no excitement at this point, it has all been dissipated away. Consumers don't see much of a need to buy it right away." Are you saying that expo demos and previews for the media actually hurt sales? I always thought manufacturers do it to build up interest and excitement; this way when the product is released everybody is rushing to buy it. Look at the games industry, for example. It seems to work. Why Apple thinks it works the other way around, is beyond me.
      - allenbrunson 17y ago
        i was going to answer this, but electromagnetic already replied with everything i would have said. heh! i'll add one thing. an enormous amount of work often goes into products that are killed before release. evidence exists that this has happened many times within apple. anticipated products that get cancelled leave a bad taste in people's mouths. if you don't announce until the product is for sale, you've automatically guarded against vaporware.
- LogicHoleFlaw 17y ago
  I'm of a torn mind on this subject. There is really a lot of tragedy in the living circumstances of the ordinary people creating so many of our mindless consumer products. But at the same time, the jobs creating such products are highly coveted because they beat the hell out of manual labor on a backcountry farm. When you've got such an enormous population bootstrapping into a modern industrialized economy there are huge disparities while the modernization process takes place. I don't think that assigning blame to Apple is warranted here. Apple certainly is horrified at what has happened - not just due to bad PR, but because an engineer took his life over a consumer gadget. There are no easy answers here. My hope is that within a few generations the societal earthquakes will settle down with respect to modernization. Even then though, what does it take to overcome millennia of societal acceptance of suicide?
  - lallysingh 17y ago
    Indeed, progress is a float, not a bool. And the sign is dependent on the arbitrary selection of evaluative criteria.
- jacoblyles 17y ago
  To be a little picky, China is not a dictatorship. Rather, it is a one-party state, complete with internal dissent and power struggles. Chinese leadership experiences more turnover than, say, North Korea. Edit: What, you don't believe me? Try this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Politics_of_the_People%27s_Republic_of_China http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Politics_of_the_People%27s_Repu... Hu Jintao has been President since 2004, succeeding Jiang Zemin who became President in 1993. Some dictatorship. Not everything non-western is equivalent. That's just sloppy thinking.
seshagiric 17y ago
While what you say is correct, it would be good if Apple did something about this. Sometime back HP had employed an agency that used illegal means in the US to trap peoples phones etc. While the contract agency committed the crime, HP did take responsibility for this. On similar lines Apple could investigate take action on their outsource partner. It should also see if its own staff gave such expectations to the outsource partner.
- aristoxenus 17y ago
  I'd put this a little more strongly: assuming what has been reported is true, Apple should step up and wield the power it has in this situation to strongly denounce and penalize Foxconn.
  - TJensen 17y ago
    I think there would need to be proof that Foxconn did something, which I would imagine will be hard to get out of China.
c0nsilience 17y ago
The article doesn't blame Apple as much as it blames the Chinese government and how it handled the matter. The article does state that it might not have happened in another country.

by a2tech 17y ago

deleted 17y ago

[deleted]

fauigerzigerk 17y ago

The article first and foremost blames chinese society and government. Apple's secrecy is mentioned only as a side note without assigning any blame.

barredo 17y ago

Disclaimer: i'm a Mac user and have nothing against Apple. Said that I guess we (and the companies) should start thinking if this kind of 'collaboration' or contracts with Chinese companies are not only profitable (that is the main -if not only- reason) but good for China, the Chinese company, the Chinese workers, the non-Chinese company and the end user. Because I guess, we are exploiting the workers in a country with a dictatorship just to get cheap gadgets, toys and such. And yes, I would say Apple is a bit to be blamed for this. Not that Apple were aware or that Apple would approve these (I'm 100% sure it doesn't) actions. But, if this Chinese company -and others- keep their contracts with American or European companies although things like keep happening (At least we know about this case! How many of them have happened?)... they (the 'first world companies') will become (if they are not already) part of the problem. ps. Sorry for my English (I'm from Spain and well...)

jacquesm 17y ago
Apple is part of the problem here because they are positively anal about their product releases being kept secret to the point where they will sue left right and center if they suspect some kind of breach. Why the cult of 'new' is so crazy about having the latest gadgets and how much that drives sales is totally beyond me. If it works and I need it I'll buy it, otherwise you can keep it. I never realized how bad it really was until a good friend - who shall remain nameless - vowed to queue to be one of the first to have an iphone. Seriously, who cares. People think they're cool because they have cool stuff, not because they do cool stuff.
- plinkplonk 17y ago
  "People think they're cool because they have cool stuff, not because they do cool stuff." Very succinct expression of an idea that has been rattling around in my head for a while but I couldn't express except very verbosely. This is one of the reasons I read HN. People whose writing skill makes me think "I wish I could write as clearly as that".
- allenbrunson 17y ago
  When Apple announces a new product, it is almost always available for sale that very day. Almost everybody is hearing about it for the first time. The big wave of excitement hits, which probably leads to a big first few weeks of sales. Many (most?) other companies have talked a product to death by the time it is actually for sale. There is no excitement at this point, it has all been dissipated away. Consumers don't see much of a need to buy it right away. Maybe they'll forget about it altogether before making the decision. I'd say this works pretty well for Apple. You are trivializing their methods in an ugly way.
  - geoka 17y ago
    "Many (most?) other companies have talked a product to death by the time it is actually for sale. There is no excitement at this point, it has all been dissipated away. Consumers don't see much of a need to buy it right away." Are you saying that expo demos and previews for the media actually hurt sales? I always thought manufacturers do it to build up interest and excitement; this way when the product is released everybody is rushing to buy it. Look at the games industry, for example. It seems to work. Why Apple thinks it works the other way around, is beyond me.
    - allenbrunson 17y ago
      i was going to answer this, but electromagnetic already replied with everything i would have said. heh! i'll add one thing. an enormous amount of work often goes into products that are killed before release. evidence exists that this has happened many times within apple. anticipated products that get cancelled leave a bad taste in people's mouths. if you don't announce until the product is for sale, you've automatically guarded against vaporware.
LogicHoleFlaw 17y ago
I'm of a torn mind on this subject. There is really a lot of tragedy in the living circumstances of the ordinary people creating so many of our mindless consumer products. But at the same time, the jobs creating such products are highly coveted because they beat the hell out of manual labor on a backcountry farm. When you've got such an enormous population bootstrapping into a modern industrialized economy there are huge disparities while the modernization process takes place. I don't think that assigning blame to Apple is warranted here. Apple certainly is horrified at what has happened - not just due to bad PR, but because an engineer took his life over a consumer gadget. There are no easy answers here. My hope is that within a few generations the societal earthquakes will settle down with respect to modernization. Even then though, what does it take to overcome millennia of societal acceptance of suicide?
- lallysingh 17y ago
  Indeed, progress is a float, not a bool. And the sign is dependent on the arbitrary selection of evaluative criteria.
jacoblyles 17y ago
To be a little picky, China is not a dictatorship. Rather, it is a one-party state, complete with internal dissent and power struggles. Chinese leadership experiences more turnover than, say, North Korea. Edit: What, you don't believe me? Try this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Politics_of_the_People%27s_Republic_of_China http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Politics_of_the_People%27s_Repu... Hu Jintao has been President since 2004, succeeding Jiang Zemin who became President in 1993. Some dictatorship. Not everything non-western is equivalent. That's just sloppy thinking.

seshagiric 17y ago

While what you say is correct, it would be good if Apple did something about this. Sometime back HP had employed an agency that used illegal means in the US to trap peoples phones etc. While the contract agency committed the crime, HP did take responsibility for this. On similar lines Apple could investigate take action on their outsource partner. It should also see if its own staff gave such expectations to the outsource partner.

aristoxenus 17y ago
I'd put this a little more strongly: assuming what has been reported is true, Apple should step up and wield the power it has in this situation to strongly denounce and penalize Foxconn.
- TJensen 17y ago
  I think there would need to be proof that Foxconn did something, which I would imagine will be hard to get out of China.

c0nsilience 17y ago

The article doesn't blame Apple as much as it blames the Chinese government and how it handled the matter. The article does state that it might not have happened in another country.