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While I think the TSA is largely a sack of shit, Israel's solution is hardly a panacea. Israel has basically 1 major airport, and 2 minor airports. They furthe

While I think the TSA is largely a sack of shit, Israel's solution is hardly a panacea. Israel has basically 1 major airport, and 2 minor airports. They further are based heavily on profiling. I don't expect the Israeli model would fit well to the US, which has 19 airports with more traffic than Ben Gurion, and a much more dynamic set of threats.

EpicEng 13y ago
You could be right about that, I'm certainly no expert, it just seemed to make sense to me. Perhaps I was oversimplifying things in my head. However, it's hard to imagine that we wouldn't be more secure hiring educated behaviorists to have a quick chat with passengers before they board a plane.
- eck 13y ago
  > However, it's hard to imagine that we wouldn't be more secure hiring educated behaviorists to have a quick chat with passengers before they board a plane. "quick chat"? Would this would be a "quick chat" where they can ask anything they want, lying is a felony, and choosing not to answer would get you locked in a back room for "secondary screening" until ten minutes after your plane leaves?
  - EpicEng 13y ago
    Perhaps not that extreme, but I'm not aware of an inalienable right to fly on an airplane. Don't want to answer a few questions about your trip? Fine, you're either a threat or you're just being a jerk. You don't get to fly. You're coming up with problems with a theoretical implementation that doesn't even exist. And let's not go overboard on the "ask anything they want." These would be educated, skilled individuals. Asking inappropriate questions would not be per procedure. It is in everyone's interest to have safe flights, and if you're being difficult just to be difficult then tough shit, that's what you get.
    - DanBC 13y ago
      YouTube has very many videos of people being awkward assholes just for the sake of it, and then being outraged by the response they get no matter how mild and polite that response is. While it probably would be a good thing to drop the security theatre and to have better training there are going to be a bunch of Americans who resent the idea that someone is asking them a question before they board a plane.
    - BlackDeath3 13y ago
      >Don't want to answer a few questions about your trip? Fine, you're either a threat or you're just being a jerk. You don't get to fly. And if that was the extent of it, fair enough. Unfortunately, sometimes it's a little less "you don't get to fly" and a little more "I'm sorry sir, but we're going to have to detain you for several hours of invasive questioning". >These would be educated, skilled individuals. Asking inappropriate questions would not be per procedure. Maybe in CandyLand, this would be the case. Here on Earth, things do not always occur according to ideals.
      - EpicEng 13y ago
        Well I'm not proposing that we detain people who won't answer a question. Again, I'm not proposing a carbon copy of the Israeli system. Maybe in CandyLand, this would be the case. Here on Earth, things do not always occur according to ideals. Well, yeah, of course, but there's nothing you can do to prevent that. You could make that argument of literally any system. Of course some people will do the wrong thing. The idea is that you correct it and do what you can to prevent it.
        pyre 13y ago
        > The idea is that you correct it and do what you can to prevent it. The US Government does not share this idea with you. It's much better to sweep it under the rug, because to admit to fault would hurt the public's confidence in The System(tm).
    - ldarcyftw 13y ago
      >These would be educated, skilled individuals. I'm pretty sure TSA was created with the same thoughts.
  - justin66 13y ago
    > Would this would be a "quick chat" where they can ask anything they want, lying is a felony, and choosing not to answer would get you locked in a back room for "secondary screening" until ten minutes after your plane leaves? Good point, but it's sadly not that different than the way things work now. The difference would seem to be the TSA wouldn't need a provocation, whereas technically now they sort of do.
Consultant32452 13y ago
Israeli security is based on profiling, but not racial or religious profiling. They profile primarily on the nations you have passport stamps for. If you've been in a country that is known to harbor and train terrorists, you're gonna get the microscope. I feel like this is healthy profiling.
- malandrew 13y ago
  What about Oklahoma City? Does this put the US on that list?
  - wonderyak 13y ago
    What amount of security screening is going to stop a truck full of explosives from going off?
    - malandrew 13y ago
      None. Screening is not the only tool out there. What happened to good old fashioned detective work? In both law enforcement and journalism, we are no longer willing to fund proper investigative work.
- refurb 13y ago
  From what I've read, a lot of the profiling is by country of origin and somewhat by ethnic group. They won't come out directly and ask if you're Jewish, but they will ask you where you were born, where your parents were born and what their last names were. If you're Jewish you're in the "low risk" bucket. If you're not, you get extra scrutiny. I wouldn't be surprised if an Arab from Palestine gets a lot of scrutiny.
jfb 13y ago
Yeah, the threat models are different, and again, scale.
newman314 13y ago
Looks to be more than that. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Israeli_airports http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Israeli_airports
- chmullig 13y ago
  Look at the numbers: Rank Airport Passenger numbers 1 Ben Gurion Airport 13,134,070 2 Eilat Airport 1,400,067 3 Sde Dov Airport 658,741 4 Ovda Airport 136,791 5 Haifa Airport 68,968 6 Ben Ya'akov Airport 15,782 Meanwhile in the US, Birmingham is the #72 airport, and the one closest to Israel's #2. Harrisburg, PA is #105, and closest to Sde Dov. Lincoln, NE is #204, and closest to Ovda. Source: http://www.faa.gov/airports/planning_capacity/passenger_allcargo_stats/passenger/media/CY12CommercialServiceEnplanements.pdf http://www.faa.gov/airports/planning_capacity/passenger_allc...

EpicEng 13y ago

You could be right about that, I'm certainly no expert, it just seemed to make sense to me. Perhaps I was oversimplifying things in my head. However, it's hard to imagine that we wouldn't be more secure hiring educated behaviorists to have a quick chat with passengers before they board a plane.

eck 13y ago
> However, it's hard to imagine that we wouldn't be more secure hiring educated behaviorists to have a quick chat with passengers before they board a plane. "quick chat"? Would this would be a "quick chat" where they can ask anything they want, lying is a felony, and choosing not to answer would get you locked in a back room for "secondary screening" until ten minutes after your plane leaves?
- EpicEng 13y ago
  Perhaps not that extreme, but I'm not aware of an inalienable right to fly on an airplane. Don't want to answer a few questions about your trip? Fine, you're either a threat or you're just being a jerk. You don't get to fly. You're coming up with problems with a theoretical implementation that doesn't even exist. And let's not go overboard on the "ask anything they want." These would be educated, skilled individuals. Asking inappropriate questions would not be per procedure. It is in everyone's interest to have safe flights, and if you're being difficult just to be difficult then tough shit, that's what you get.
  - DanBC 13y ago
    YouTube has very many videos of people being awkward assholes just for the sake of it, and then being outraged by the response they get no matter how mild and polite that response is. While it probably would be a good thing to drop the security theatre and to have better training there are going to be a bunch of Americans who resent the idea that someone is asking them a question before they board a plane.
  - BlackDeath3 13y ago
    >Don't want to answer a few questions about your trip? Fine, you're either a threat or you're just being a jerk. You don't get to fly. And if that was the extent of it, fair enough. Unfortunately, sometimes it's a little less "you don't get to fly" and a little more "I'm sorry sir, but we're going to have to detain you for several hours of invasive questioning". >These would be educated, skilled individuals. Asking inappropriate questions would not be per procedure. Maybe in CandyLand, this would be the case. Here on Earth, things do not always occur according to ideals.
    - EpicEng 13y ago
      Well I'm not proposing that we detain people who won't answer a question. Again, I'm not proposing a carbon copy of the Israeli system. Maybe in CandyLand, this would be the case. Here on Earth, things do not always occur according to ideals. Well, yeah, of course, but there's nothing you can do to prevent that. You could make that argument of literally any system. Of course some people will do the wrong thing. The idea is that you correct it and do what you can to prevent it.
      - pyre 13y ago
        > The idea is that you correct it and do what you can to prevent it. The US Government does not share this idea with you. It's much better to sweep it under the rug, because to admit to fault would hurt the public's confidence in The System(tm).
  - ldarcyftw 13y ago
    >These would be educated, skilled individuals. I'm pretty sure TSA was created with the same thoughts.
- justin66 13y ago
  > Would this would be a "quick chat" where they can ask anything they want, lying is a felony, and choosing not to answer would get you locked in a back room for "secondary screening" until ten minutes after your plane leaves? Good point, but it's sadly not that different than the way things work now. The difference would seem to be the TSA wouldn't need a provocation, whereas technically now they sort of do.

Consultant32452 13y ago

Israeli security is based on profiling, but not racial or religious profiling. They profile primarily on the nations you have passport stamps for. If you've been in a country that is known to harbor and train terrorists, you're gonna get the microscope. I feel like this is healthy profiling.

malandrew 13y ago
What about Oklahoma City? Does this put the US on that list?
- wonderyak 13y ago
  What amount of security screening is going to stop a truck full of explosives from going off?
  - malandrew 13y ago
    None. Screening is not the only tool out there. What happened to good old fashioned detective work? In both law enforcement and journalism, we are no longer willing to fund proper investigative work.
refurb 13y ago
From what I've read, a lot of the profiling is by country of origin and somewhat by ethnic group. They won't come out directly and ask if you're Jewish, but they will ask you where you were born, where your parents were born and what their last names were. If you're Jewish you're in the "low risk" bucket. If you're not, you get extra scrutiny. I wouldn't be surprised if an Arab from Palestine gets a lot of scrutiny.

jfb 13y ago

Yeah, the threat models are different, and again, scale.

newman314 13y ago

Looks to be more than that. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Israeli_airports http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Israeli_airports

chmullig 13y ago
Look at the numbers: Rank Airport Passenger numbers 1 Ben Gurion Airport 13,134,070 2 Eilat Airport 1,400,067 3 Sde Dov Airport 658,741 4 Ovda Airport 136,791 5 Haifa Airport 68,968 6 Ben Ya'akov Airport 15,782 Meanwhile in the US, Birmingham is the #72 airport, and the one closest to Israel's #2. Harrisburg, PA is #105, and closest to Sde Dov. Lincoln, NE is #204, and closest to Ovda. Source: http://www.faa.gov/airports/planning_capacity/passenger_allcargo_stats/passenger/media/CY12CommercialServiceEnplanements.pdf http://www.faa.gov/airports/planning_capacity/passenger_allc...