5 ms·

Why we don't take a page out of the Israeli's book is beyond me. They have been dealing with this for much longer, have made the mistakes we are currently maki

by EpicEng 13y ago

Why we don't take a page out of the Israeli's book is beyond me. They have been dealing with this for much longer, have made the mistakes we are currently making, and have learned from them. Their airports don't have long lines and pat downs by ill-trained employees (lines of course exist, but they are shorter and not what we in the US are used to). Instead they hire fewer, educated and skilled persons, many of whom are, behaviorists to determine potential threats. It works; the last successful airport attack in Israel was in 1986, and they have prevented many since. I remember reading about this in an interview with an ex Israeli defense minister years ago, but I couldn't find that article. This one sums it up though: http://www.cnn.com/2010/OPINION/01/11/yeffet.air.security.israel/ http://www.cnn.com/2010/OPINION/01/11/yeffet.air.security.is...

refurb 13y ago
The profiling the Israelis do would never fly in the US. Plus, all it would take is a few media reports about people missing or not being allowed on a flight and the system would come crashing down. From what I've read, the Israeli system basically works like this:"if I'm not convinced I'm getting the entire truth, we're going to keep doing this until I do, plane leaving or not".
- EpicEng 13y ago
  Well, I'm not saying we just copy what they do blindly. The situations are different. That doesn't mean we couldn't employee some of their tactics. Particularly, I've always liked the idea of trained personal (behaviorists) who have a quick chat with every passenger while doing away with much of the security dog and pony show.
  - refurb 13y ago
    I think the problem is that the most effective techniques used by the Israelis are the ones that wouldn't fly here in the US. However, I'm sure the TSA reached out them for information on other things.
- lisper 13y ago
  > "if I'm not convinced I'm getting the entire truth, we're going to keep doing this until I do, plane leaving or not" That's pretty much how it is in the U.S. too.
  - refurb 13y ago
    That's true. I'm not saying TSA agents let suspects onto planes, but the difference in Israel (from what I've read) is that the security agents use it to a much greater degree. For example, if you fit the wrong profile, they will not let you board even though they have little to no evidence of any wrongdoing. If it turns out later that you're "clean"? No repercussions to the agents and you'll get zero traction if you try and complain about it either to the security organization or the press. The Israeli public accepts that fact. If that same thing happened here in the US, I don't think Americans would stand for it. Sure there have been examples of the TSA doing it, but the backlash is pretty severe and they don't seem to do it as often. The Israeli airport security process reminds me more of the border control agents in the US (CPB). Those guys can pretty much turn away anyone they want for little to no reason (even ban you from entry permanently) and they are given that prerogative.
    - chimeracoder 13y ago
      > For example, if you fit the wrong profile, they will not let you board even though they have little to no evidence of any wrongdoing. It may not be exactly the same, but that's not too far from what happens in the US either (I would know - it happened to me). The main difference between Israel and the US is that in Israel, the racial profiling is done openly. That's not to say that people are happy with the racial profiling there either[0], but it's legal to do it explicitly. [0] http://www.thenational.ae/news/world/arabs-say-they-endure-degrading-airport-security-checks http://www.thenational.ae/news/world/arabs-say-they-endure-d...
- nowigetit 13y ago
  From what I understand, when you get pulled aside for questioning in the US, it works the same way... whether it's supposed to or not.
rickdale 13y ago
Too true. I was in Israel just a few years ago visiting family and my cousin that is now out of the army, but still works for the army, told me the safest place in the world is the Israeli airport. Between the cameras the officers and the checkpoints it sure seemed that way. From memory: there was a checkpoint driving up to the airport where my cousin had to tell the guy where he was from, purpose for going to the airport etc, that was brief. Then when I got into the airport there was just sorta a mash of people rather than a line and eventually there were 3 or 4 people taking id, and asking you questions about your visit. Again very brief. From there metal detector and then to the gate. My fear is that the TSA does do a lot of the same camera stuff and the charade that they put on at the metal detector/body scanner is in fact just a charade.
- vacri 13y ago
  the safest place in the world is the Israeli airport. Between the cameras the officers and the checkpoints it sure seemed that way. I can't tell if this is an attempt at humour or not. There are tons of sleepy country villages with zero crime - not even theft, and a part-time law enforcement officer who covers a large area.
BlackDeath3 13y ago
>It works; the last successful airport attack in Israel was in 1986, and they have prevented many since I'd be willing to bet that shutting down all airports permanently would prove successful in preventing attacks. The question is, at what cost?
- EpicEng 13y ago
  Well that seems like a silly leap. I'm not sure what "cost" you're referring to, but you're right in that some of what they do wouldn't fly here. That doesn't mean we couldn't take a hybrid approach. It seems pretty plain that much of what we do now is comical.
  - BlackDeath3 13y ago
    Of course it's a silly leap. I was trying to illustrate that the argument of "Strategy X prevented crime" doesn't necessarily make it a preferable alternative. As to the cost: I'm a twitchy sort of fellow. If I had to self-diagnose I would probably attribute it to OCD or some such thing, but regardless... what are these behaviorists looking for? Do I get profiled based on the fact that I probably look "sketchy" in public, regardless of my actual intent? Sounds like a cost to me (though perhaps one you personally would never consider).
chmullig 13y ago
While I think the TSA is largely a sack of shit, Israel's solution is hardly a panacea. Israel has basically 1 major airport, and 2 minor airports. They further are based heavily on profiling. I don't expect the Israeli model would fit well to the US, which has 19 airports with more traffic than Ben Gurion, and a much more dynamic set of threats.
- EpicEng 13y ago
  You could be right about that, I'm certainly no expert, it just seemed to make sense to me. Perhaps I was oversimplifying things in my head. However, it's hard to imagine that we wouldn't be more secure hiring educated behaviorists to have a quick chat with passengers before they board a plane.
  - eck 13y ago
    > However, it's hard to imagine that we wouldn't be more secure hiring educated behaviorists to have a quick chat with passengers before they board a plane. "quick chat"? Would this would be a "quick chat" where they can ask anything they want, lying is a felony, and choosing not to answer would get you locked in a back room for "secondary screening" until ten minutes after your plane leaves?
    - EpicEng 13y ago
      Perhaps not that extreme, but I'm not aware of an inalienable right to fly on an airplane. Don't want to answer a few questions about your trip? Fine, you're either a threat or you're just being a jerk. You don't get to fly. You're coming up with problems with a theoretical implementation that doesn't even exist. And let's not go overboard on the "ask anything they want." These would be educated, skilled individuals. Asking inappropriate questions would not be per procedure. It is in everyone's interest to have safe flights, and if you're being difficult just to be difficult then tough shit, that's what you get.
      - DanBC 13y ago
carlob 13y ago
Funny story: a professor I know was once asked at an Israeli airport whether he spoke any hebrew, when he answered: "no, but I would love to learn", the security officer didn't know what to do for a couple of seconds. Anyway if what I hear from my friend who is a social worker in the Occupied Territories about security at Israeli airports I sure hope the US doesn't take a page from Israeli's book.
tlb 13y ago
As a society, you have to allocate the limited supply of educated and skilled people wisely. I'd rather have them teaching, doing medical research, or starting startups than doing better traveler screening.
- epo 13y ago
  America has a huge number of graduates who are unemployed or working at menial jobs, the supply is far from limited.
jbigelow76 13y ago
Among many other reasons, it's partly a question of scale. A quick Wikipedia check[1] shows Israel has 28 airports, the US has a few more than that, as of 2011 it was 19,782.[2] You just can't expect the same level of quality with the same policies with the difference in locations and passenger volume. [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Israeli_airports http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Israeli_airports [2] http://www.rita.dot.gov/bts/sites/rita.dot.gov.bts/files/publications/national_transportation_statistics/html/table_01_03.html http://www.rita.dot.gov/bts/sites/rita.dot.gov.bts/files/pub...
- dredmorbius 13y ago
  You're grossly overstating the commercial aviation fields in the US. TSA applies to commercial aviation. Most of those US fields are general (civilian, private, noncommercial) aviation, and the overwhelming majority are little more than dirt strips (33.3% were paved as of 2006). For commercial transport, you want to look at the "certified" line of that table, which shows 547 fields. From the footnote: "Certificated airports serve air-carrier operations with aircraft seating more than 9 passengers. As of 2005, the Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) no longer certificates military airports." According to Wikipedia's list of US airports, sorted by enplanements (this is apparently a word), there are 87 airports with > 1 million enmplanements/year. At the low end, that's 2740 daily, or about 30 largish flights (100 seats each). CHS, Charleston International Airport (South Carolina) is the 87th on this list. Another 296 airports are listed with traffic ranging down to 1,124 passenger boardings/year. Of these, 201 have more than 100 boardings/day on average.
  - pyre 13y ago
    > TSA applies to commercial aviation It hasn't been that way for a while. They have been expanding to things like sporting events, trains stations, etc.
    - dredmorbius 13y ago
      In the context of my comment: commercial as opposed to general aviation.
Zigurd 13y ago
That would increase costs and require higher competency. It won't happen. What we need is to expand the TSA-Pre procedures to everyone who isn't a suspected terrorist.
guelo 13y ago
Behaviorists? That sounds like a mix of bullshit and racism.
- EpicEng 13y ago
  Not sure I understand what you're getting at... there exist people trained to cue in on the behavior of others. What does race have to do with it? Care to elaborate?
  - scott_s 13y ago
    He's calling the training and abilities of such people into question. And I think it's a legitimate concern. Have we performed any studies on such behaviorists to determine if they are better than people with no training? Are they succumbing to personal prejudice? (That's where race comes in.) How do we even evaluate such things? Schneier has written favorably about the Israeli approach (https://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2005/07/profiling.html https://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2005/07/profiling.htm...) while more recently has pointed to research which calls the UK and US approach into question (https://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2010/06/behavioral_prof_3.html https://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2010/06/behavioral_pr...). Schneier's take is that the Israeli approach does not scale to the US (https://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2010/01/adopting_the_is.html https://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2010/01/adopting_the_...). If I understand his point, it's not so much the training of looking for behaviors, but the amount of time spent with each person. I am personally skeptical that anyone can be trained to identify behaviors indicative of terrorist activity, and that such a person would not just succumb to their own personal biases.
    - benched 13y ago
      This here is making perfect the enemy of good, blended with the pathologically compulsive Hacker News "data needed!" tic.
      - scott_s 13y ago
        I think it's garden-variety skepticism of a rather broad claim. "Behaviorists" ticks my charlatan-radar. I'm not arguing for perfect - how do we even know it's good? And I would like to point out that I sought out some sources on the subject, which points to lots of research.
michaelkeenan 13y ago
The USA spends about $6.93 per passenger on security. Israel spends about $56.75 per passenger on security. Source: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/11/25/AR2010112502167.html http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/11...
- cheesedawg 13y ago
  EL AL spends $56.75, not Israel. The in-airport security when not flying EL AL has nothing to do with EL AL so these numbers don't seem that relevant.
- deleted 13y ago
  [deleted]
justin66 13y ago
> Why we don't take a page out of the Israeli's book is beyond me. They have been dealing with this for much longer, have made the mistakes we are currently making, and have learned from them. They've also decided that they're okay with alienating to the highest possible degree a huge chunk of their population and most of their neighbors with their security measures. I wonder how different their methods would look if they were adapted to the American situation, and how an already fatigued American populace would react.
NamTaf 13y ago
How about you do it like the rest of the developed world does and just not have a whole load of useless security theatre? Everyone's happier and you don't become the laughing stock of the 'free' world.
chimeracoder 13y ago
Israeli security is based heavily on explicit racial profiling that is illegal in the US[0]. Their model is also great if you happen to be white and Jewish, but not so great if you're Arab[1]. In any case, we don't need to speculate. The TSA has actually been trained by former security officers from El Al, which is how we ended up with things like the "Behavioral Detection Officers", who have been accused of relying on race as a primary indicator[2], instead of "microexpressions" (which are themselves a rather suspect idea to begin with). Perhaps we could hire and train better officers (which would require paying them better wages), but that would be a rather unnecessary expense, given that the TSA itself has admitted that there is "no evidence of terrorist plots against aviation in the US"[3]. [0] That doesn't prevent it from being practiced in the US, but it's illegal. [1] http://www.thenational.ae/news/world/arabs-say-they-endure-degrading-airport-security-checks http://www.thenational.ae/news/world/arabs-say-they-endure-d... [2] http://www.bostonglobe.com/business/2013/11/15/aclu-calls-for-inquiry-into-racial-profiling-investigation-logan/QRCgxIoHfHwculklDWD8FL/story.html http://www.bostonglobe.com/business/2013/11/15/aclu-calls-fo... [3] http://tsaoutofourpants.wordpress.com/2013/10/17/tsa-admits-in-leaked-doc-no-evidence-of-terrorist-plots-against-aviation-in-us/ http://tsaoutofourpants.wordpress.com/2013/10/17/tsa-admits-...
- deleted 13y ago
  [deleted]
chrismcb 13y ago
I don't understand why people bring up Israel whenever there is a TSA discussion. When the obvious answer is to just abolish the TSA, and do way with any security theatre. Why does air travel need so much more protection (an infinite amount more) than pretty much anything else in our lives?

by EpicEng 13y ago

refurb 13y ago

The profiling the Israelis do would never fly in the US. Plus, all it would take is a few media reports about people missing or not being allowed on a flight and the system would come crashing down. From what I've read, the Israeli system basically works like this:"if I'm not convinced I'm getting the entire truth, we're going to keep doing this until I do, plane leaving or not".

EpicEng 13y ago
Well, I'm not saying we just copy what they do blindly. The situations are different. That doesn't mean we couldn't employee some of their tactics. Particularly, I've always liked the idea of trained personal (behaviorists) who have a quick chat with every passenger while doing away with much of the security dog and pony show.
- refurb 13y ago
  I think the problem is that the most effective techniques used by the Israelis are the ones that wouldn't fly here in the US. However, I'm sure the TSA reached out them for information on other things.
lisper 13y ago
> "if I'm not convinced I'm getting the entire truth, we're going to keep doing this until I do, plane leaving or not" That's pretty much how it is in the U.S. too.
- refurb 13y ago
  That's true. I'm not saying TSA agents let suspects onto planes, but the difference in Israel (from what I've read) is that the security agents use it to a much greater degree. For example, if you fit the wrong profile, they will not let you board even though they have little to no evidence of any wrongdoing. If it turns out later that you're "clean"? No repercussions to the agents and you'll get zero traction if you try and complain about it either to the security organization or the press. The Israeli public accepts that fact. If that same thing happened here in the US, I don't think Americans would stand for it. Sure there have been examples of the TSA doing it, but the backlash is pretty severe and they don't seem to do it as often. The Israeli airport security process reminds me more of the border control agents in the US (CPB). Those guys can pretty much turn away anyone they want for little to no reason (even ban you from entry permanently) and they are given that prerogative.
  - chimeracoder 13y ago
    > For example, if you fit the wrong profile, they will not let you board even though they have little to no evidence of any wrongdoing. It may not be exactly the same, but that's not too far from what happens in the US either (I would know - it happened to me). The main difference between Israel and the US is that in Israel, the racial profiling is done openly. That's not to say that people are happy with the racial profiling there either[0], but it's legal to do it explicitly. [0] http://www.thenational.ae/news/world/arabs-say-they-endure-degrading-airport-security-checks http://www.thenational.ae/news/world/arabs-say-they-endure-d...
nowigetit 13y ago
From what I understand, when you get pulled aside for questioning in the US, it works the same way... whether it's supposed to or not.

rickdale 13y ago

Too true. I was in Israel just a few years ago visiting family and my cousin that is now out of the army, but still works for the army, told me the safest place in the world is the Israeli airport. Between the cameras the officers and the checkpoints it sure seemed that way. From memory: there was a checkpoint driving up to the airport where my cousin had to tell the guy where he was from, purpose for going to the airport etc, that was brief. Then when I got into the airport there was just sorta a mash of people rather than a line and eventually there were 3 or 4 people taking id, and asking you questions about your visit. Again very brief. From there metal detector and then to the gate. My fear is that the TSA does do a lot of the same camera stuff and the charade that they put on at the metal detector/body scanner is in fact just a charade.

vacri 13y ago
the safest place in the world is the Israeli airport. Between the cameras the officers and the checkpoints it sure seemed that way. I can't tell if this is an attempt at humour or not. There are tons of sleepy country villages with zero crime - not even theft, and a part-time law enforcement officer who covers a large area.

BlackDeath3 13y ago

>It works; the last successful airport attack in Israel was in 1986, and they have prevented many since I'd be willing to bet that shutting down all airports permanently would prove successful in preventing attacks. The question is, at what cost?

EpicEng 13y ago
Well that seems like a silly leap. I'm not sure what "cost" you're referring to, but you're right in that some of what they do wouldn't fly here. That doesn't mean we couldn't take a hybrid approach. It seems pretty plain that much of what we do now is comical.
- BlackDeath3 13y ago
  Of course it's a silly leap. I was trying to illustrate that the argument of "Strategy X prevented crime" doesn't necessarily make it a preferable alternative. As to the cost: I'm a twitchy sort of fellow. If I had to self-diagnose I would probably attribute it to OCD or some such thing, but regardless... what are these behaviorists looking for? Do I get profiled based on the fact that I probably look "sketchy" in public, regardless of my actual intent? Sounds like a cost to me (though perhaps one you personally would never consider).

chmullig 13y ago

While I think the TSA is largely a sack of shit, Israel's solution is hardly a panacea. Israel has basically 1 major airport, and 2 minor airports. They further are based heavily on profiling. I don't expect the Israeli model would fit well to the US, which has 19 airports with more traffic than Ben Gurion, and a much more dynamic set of threats.

EpicEng 13y ago
You could be right about that, I'm certainly no expert, it just seemed to make sense to me. Perhaps I was oversimplifying things in my head. However, it's hard to imagine that we wouldn't be more secure hiring educated behaviorists to have a quick chat with passengers before they board a plane.
- eck 13y ago
  > However, it's hard to imagine that we wouldn't be more secure hiring educated behaviorists to have a quick chat with passengers before they board a plane. "quick chat"? Would this would be a "quick chat" where they can ask anything they want, lying is a felony, and choosing not to answer would get you locked in a back room for "secondary screening" until ten minutes after your plane leaves?
  - EpicEng 13y ago
    Perhaps not that extreme, but I'm not aware of an inalienable right to fly on an airplane. Don't want to answer a few questions about your trip? Fine, you're either a threat or you're just being a jerk. You don't get to fly. You're coming up with problems with a theoretical implementation that doesn't even exist. And let's not go overboard on the "ask anything they want." These would be educated, skilled individuals. Asking inappropriate questions would not be per procedure. It is in everyone's interest to have safe flights, and if you're being difficult just to be difficult then tough shit, that's what you get.
    - DanBC 13y ago

carlob 13y ago

Funny story: a professor I know was once asked at an Israeli airport whether he spoke any hebrew, when he answered: "no, but I would love to learn", the security officer didn't know what to do for a couple of seconds. Anyway if what I hear from my friend who is a social worker in the Occupied Territories about security at Israeli airports I sure hope the US doesn't take a page from Israeli's book.

tlb 13y ago

As a society, you have to allocate the limited supply of educated and skilled people wisely. I'd rather have them teaching, doing medical research, or starting startups than doing better traveler screening.

epo 13y ago
America has a huge number of graduates who are unemployed or working at menial jobs, the supply is far from limited.

jbigelow76 13y ago

Among many other reasons, it's partly a question of scale. A quick Wikipedia check[1] shows Israel has 28 airports, the US has a few more than that, as of 2011 it was 19,782.[2] You just can't expect the same level of quality with the same policies with the difference in locations and passenger volume. [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Israeli_airports http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Israeli_airports [2] http://www.rita.dot.gov/bts/sites/rita.dot.gov.bts/files/publications/national_transportation_statistics/html/table_01_03.html http://www.rita.dot.gov/bts/sites/rita.dot.gov.bts/files/pub...

dredmorbius 13y ago
You're grossly overstating the commercial aviation fields in the US. TSA applies to commercial aviation. Most of those US fields are general (civilian, private, noncommercial) aviation, and the overwhelming majority are little more than dirt strips (33.3% were paved as of 2006). For commercial transport, you want to look at the "certified" line of that table, which shows 547 fields. From the footnote: "Certificated airports serve air-carrier operations with aircraft seating more than 9 passengers. As of 2005, the Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) no longer certificates military airports." According to Wikipedia's list of US airports, sorted by enplanements (this is apparently a word), there are 87 airports with > 1 million enmplanements/year. At the low end, that's 2740 daily, or about 30 largish flights (100 seats each). CHS, Charleston International Airport (South Carolina) is the 87th on this list. Another 296 airports are listed with traffic ranging down to 1,124 passenger boardings/year. Of these, 201 have more than 100 boardings/day on average.
- pyre 13y ago
  > TSA applies to commercial aviation It hasn't been that way for a while. They have been expanding to things like sporting events, trains stations, etc.
  - dredmorbius 13y ago
    In the context of my comment: commercial as opposed to general aviation.

Zigurd 13y ago

That would increase costs and require higher competency. It won't happen. What we need is to expand the TSA-Pre procedures to everyone who isn't a suspected terrorist.

guelo 13y ago

Behaviorists? That sounds like a mix of bullshit and racism.

EpicEng 13y ago
Not sure I understand what you're getting at... there exist people trained to cue in on the behavior of others. What does race have to do with it? Care to elaborate?
- scott_s 13y ago
  He's calling the training and abilities of such people into question. And I think it's a legitimate concern. Have we performed any studies on such behaviorists to determine if they are better than people with no training? Are they succumbing to personal prejudice? (That's where race comes in.) How do we even evaluate such things? Schneier has written favorably about the Israeli approach (https://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2005/07/profiling.html https://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2005/07/profiling.htm...) while more recently has pointed to research which calls the UK and US approach into question (https://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2010/06/behavioral_prof_3.html https://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2010/06/behavioral_pr...). Schneier's take is that the Israeli approach does not scale to the US (https://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2010/01/adopting_the_is.html https://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2010/01/adopting_the_...). If I understand his point, it's not so much the training of looking for behaviors, but the amount of time spent with each person. I am personally skeptical that anyone can be trained to identify behaviors indicative of terrorist activity, and that such a person would not just succumb to their own personal biases.
  - benched 13y ago
    This here is making perfect the enemy of good, blended with the pathologically compulsive Hacker News "data needed!" tic.
    - scott_s 13y ago
      I think it's garden-variety skepticism of a rather broad claim. "Behaviorists" ticks my charlatan-radar. I'm not arguing for perfect - how do we even know it's good? And I would like to point out that I sought out some sources on the subject, which points to lots of research.

michaelkeenan 13y ago

The USA spends about $6.93 per passenger on security. Israel spends about $56.75 per passenger on security. Source: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/11/25/AR2010112502167.html http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/11...

cheesedawg 13y ago
EL AL spends $56.75, not Israel. The in-airport security when not flying EL AL has nothing to do with EL AL so these numbers don't seem that relevant.
deleted 13y ago
[deleted]

justin66 13y ago

> Why we don't take a page out of the Israeli's book is beyond me. They have been dealing with this for much longer, have made the mistakes we are currently making, and have learned from them. They've also decided that they're okay with alienating to the highest possible degree a huge chunk of their population and most of their neighbors with their security measures. I wonder how different their methods would look if they were adapted to the American situation, and how an already fatigued American populace would react.

NamTaf 13y ago

How about you do it like the rest of the developed world does and just not have a whole load of useless security theatre? Everyone's happier and you don't become the laughing stock of the 'free' world.

chimeracoder 13y ago

Israeli security is based heavily on explicit racial profiling that is illegal in the US[0]. Their model is also great if you happen to be white and Jewish, but not so great if you're Arab[1]. In any case, we don't need to speculate. The TSA has actually been trained by former security officers from El Al, which is how we ended up with things like the "Behavioral Detection Officers", who have been accused of relying on race as a primary indicator[2], instead of "microexpressions" (which are themselves a rather suspect idea to begin with). Perhaps we could hire and train better officers (which would require paying them better wages), but that would be a rather unnecessary expense, given that the TSA itself has admitted that there is "no evidence of terrorist plots against aviation in the US"[3]. [0] That doesn't prevent it from being practiced in the US, but it's illegal. [1] http://www.thenational.ae/news/world/arabs-say-they-endure-degrading-airport-security-checks http://www.thenational.ae/news/world/arabs-say-they-endure-d... [2] http://www.bostonglobe.com/business/2013/11/15/aclu-calls-for-inquiry-into-racial-profiling-investigation-logan/QRCgxIoHfHwculklDWD8FL/story.html http://www.bostonglobe.com/business/2013/11/15/aclu-calls-fo... [3] http://tsaoutofourpants.wordpress.com/2013/10/17/tsa-admits-in-leaked-doc-no-evidence-of-terrorist-plots-against-aviation-in-us/ http://tsaoutofourpants.wordpress.com/2013/10/17/tsa-admits-...

deleted 13y ago
[deleted]

chrismcb 13y ago

I don't understand why people bring up Israel whenever there is a TSA discussion. When the obvious answer is to just abolish the TSA, and do way with any security theatre. Why does air travel need so much more protection (an infinite amount more) than pretty much anything else in our lives?