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Can tell he came from France... You can't have a democracy without capitalism, if you remove capitalism you instead have to put in place a committee, if someone

Can tell he came from France... You can't have a democracy without capitalism, if you remove capitalism you instead have to put in place a committee, if someone in the committee eventually makes a grab for power (at some point this will happen), then you have a dictatorship... It's happened tons of times throughout history, no matter what people want power. If a society values money the most (as in a capitalist society) one will strive to make money and in turn products. If the society values position, then one will strive to gain status, and so on with military, strength, etc. The point being, regardless of work, it's fairly clear though a remedial understanding of history (Rome, Russia, North Korea, Greece), capitalism doesn't destroy a society nor does it create a gap. The gap is always there, it simply changes form. If for example the average worker has a home, food, water, essentially a stable life they will still complain because they want MORE. This will always happen, I know very few people who don't want more. I suspect that this is the root of it, the root of all statements such as "Capitalism vs. Democracy.." It's pathetic, it's as if these authors sole goal is to destroy democracy and instantiate communism.. We've seen that in the past and it doesn't close the gap between rich and poor it makes it worse. For when you remove the hope that work can make you rich, you put in place instead a status (or military, strength, etc.) based market, where the "wealthiest" in the society are those with that instead of currency. Unfortunately, that change in efforts towards status, or what have you, forces greater despair. As time goes on the society eventually will lose all hope and collapse... /end rand http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chicago_school_of_economics http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chicago_school_of_economics http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Austrian_School http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Austrian_School

riggins 13y ago
so what's France? Is France capitalist or socialist?
- withouted 13y ago
  its capitalist with a socialist face
nox_ 13y ago
> Can tell he came from France... And you certainly sound like the stereotypical ignorant North American.
- cglace 13y ago
  Do Canadians sound this way as well? If not then you sound pretty ignorant yourself.
foolrush 13y ago
“/end rand” ISWYDT Edit: I do find the Randian (or more likely “rant” typo) discourse somewhat polemic. You merely substitute dysfunctional fundamentalist / absolutist system A for fundamentalist / absolutist system B. Having read the article, I see no such hint of abolishment or abandonment of the capitalist system. What I do see however, is the notion that such fundamentalism should be tempered with balancing laws or cultural restraints. Surely this isn't such an apocalyptic notion, is it?
- e40 13y ago
  “/end rand” You could have left it at that, and it would have been a perfect reply.
  - foolrush 13y ago
    I did originally. I worried the HN crowd would have frowned on it. Something to be said about the negative impacts of surveillance society on the censorship of the self I am sure. ;)
kungfooguru 13y ago
If you are going to make bullshit claims at least don't back them up with provably false accusations about wealth gaps being worse in non-capitalist countries. The wealth gap in Russia increased at astonishing levels after the fall of the USSR. What those who want to make your point do is say that this doesn't matter since the "pie" is larger under the capitalist system, so the gap doesn't matter as much. Still not true, but at least not as easily shown to be false as your "clear remedial understanding of history".
- withouted 13y ago
  it actually isnt, if you read any political theory there is actually a lot of truth in what hes saying. capitalism needs democracy in order to function and vice versa, the only exception to that ever being china - and theorists are still divided on that issue.
  - glesica 13y ago
    That's a pretty damn big exception, not sure how anyone can make that claim you made with a straight face when the "exception" is composed of 20% of the world population...
- hippiehippo 13y ago
  Yes, in Eastern Europe the "wealth gap" was very small during the communism. We all had money. Actually we all had plenty of money... too bad that it was only useful to wipe our ass with it. On the other hand, some people had POWER. It didn't matter that they only had three times as much money as you and an apartment only twice as big as yours. They had to make only one phone call to get something they wanted while you, the simple wo/man had to stay in line from 4 a.m. in order to buy "luxury" products like milk. ... but "the wealth gap was smaller". So what?
  - kungfooguru 13y ago
    And now no one has such insane power and no one goes with out food or housing!

riggins 13y ago

so what's France? Is France capitalist or socialist?

withouted 13y ago
its capitalist with a socialist face

nox_ 13y ago

> Can tell he came from France... And you certainly sound like the stereotypical ignorant North American.

cglace 13y ago
Do Canadians sound this way as well? If not then you sound pretty ignorant yourself.

foolrush 13y ago

“/end rand” ISWYDT Edit: I do find the Randian (or more likely “rant” typo) discourse somewhat polemic. You merely substitute dysfunctional fundamentalist / absolutist system A for fundamentalist / absolutist system B. Having read the article, I see no such hint of abolishment or abandonment of the capitalist system. What I do see however, is the notion that such fundamentalism should be tempered with balancing laws or cultural restraints. Surely this isn't such an apocalyptic notion, is it?

e40 13y ago
“/end rand” You could have left it at that, and it would have been a perfect reply.
- foolrush 13y ago
  I did originally. I worried the HN crowd would have frowned on it. Something to be said about the negative impacts of surveillance society on the censorship of the self I am sure. ;)

kungfooguru 13y ago

If you are going to make bullshit claims at least don't back them up with provably false accusations about wealth gaps being worse in non-capitalist countries. The wealth gap in Russia increased at astonishing levels after the fall of the USSR. What those who want to make your point do is say that this doesn't matter since the "pie" is larger under the capitalist system, so the gap doesn't matter as much. Still not true, but at least not as easily shown to be false as your "clear remedial understanding of history".

withouted 13y ago
it actually isnt, if you read any political theory there is actually a lot of truth in what hes saying. capitalism needs democracy in order to function and vice versa, the only exception to that ever being china - and theorists are still divided on that issue.
- glesica 13y ago
  That's a pretty damn big exception, not sure how anyone can make that claim you made with a straight face when the "exception" is composed of 20% of the world population...
hippiehippo 13y ago
Yes, in Eastern Europe the "wealth gap" was very small during the communism. We all had money. Actually we all had plenty of money... too bad that it was only useful to wipe our ass with it. On the other hand, some people had POWER. It didn't matter that they only had three times as much money as you and an apartment only twice as big as yours. They had to make only one phone call to get something they wanted while you, the simple wo/man had to stay in line from 4 a.m. in order to buy "luxury" products like milk. ... but "the wealth gap was smaller". So what?
- kungfooguru 13y ago
  And now no one has such insane power and no one goes with out food or housing!