4 ms·

I think it is because there aren't two distinct nationalities in play here. Even the Russian-speaking Ukrainians do not want to rejoin Russia; they would prefer

I think it is because there aren't two distinct nationalities in play here. Even the Russian-speaking Ukrainians do not want to rejoin Russia; they would prefer to be Ukrainian. The situation is much closer to the situation in the United States than to those in other central and eastern European cold war countries. While there are strong regional divisions between Democrats and Republicans -- divisions that are rooted in history and culture -- members of each party have large contingents everywhere. And separatism/partition isn't seriously on the table in the USA.

apaprocki 13y ago
I agree. This is probably the best way to relate the situation to someone in the US. No one would take you seriously here if you proposed splitting "blue" states into a separate country and proposing a split there seems equally far fetched.
- a8da6b0c91d 13y ago
  Splitting up the United States is a perfectly reasonable idea and a lot of people take it seriously. http://www.moreright.net/splitting-apart-the-united-states http://www.moreright.net/splitting-apart-the-united-states
  - protomyth 13y ago
    Given how integrated the economy and land use is, it is not a reasonable idea in the near term. If you actually were going to divide the US on a red / blue split then it would be more appropriate at a county level[1] and would result in a bunch of city-states and one big land area[2]. 1) states are not really granular enough given the existence of "battleground states" and what that means for election divisions 2) LA and SF might want to buy a desalination plant fairly quickly
    - a8da6b0c91d 13y ago
      The split is not red-blue. There are distinct regional cultures in America that might be called nations. Scroll down and look at the county map in the link. Read "American Nations".
      - protomyth 13y ago
        Yeah, I saw the MN combined with ND and realized whoever researched it (I do believe the original map is a Russian professor) has no real clue on modern American and is looking mainly at immigration patterns.
shitgoose 13y ago
I believe that Crimea (peninsula in Black Sea) wouldn't mind to go back to Russia since it has never been historically a Ukrainian territory. East of Ukraine may not be keen on becoming Russian, but sure as hell they don't want to be ruled by Western Ukraine. Differences between East and West of Ukraine run deep and go far beyond political preferences. West sees East as scum. Period. For example, when Western protestors in Kiev catch youths from the East (they call them 'titushki', or provocateurs), protesters write the word 'SLAVE' on easterners' foreheads with permanent marker: http://icdn.lenta.ru/images/2014/01/27/13/20140127131837914/detail_8d01dd6cb2f9103dd0cfc544aae2d3df.jpg http://icdn.lenta.ru/images/2014/01/27/13/20140127131837914/.... I don't think East and West in Ukraine have any future together.
- dmytrish 13y ago
  East also sees West as a land of rural people who do plumbing/maid work in Europe for food and are wicked nationalists/Nazis. The titushki you mentioned are not shamed just because they're from Eastern Ukraine, but of what they did in Kiev for government money (beatings/vandalism to discriminate Maidan). So I have to admit that there are some deep cultural differences, indeed. But when I try to imagine two Ukraines, there are so many questions (where to put the border - in any place it would tear apart close regions, there's no clear border, it's a huge gradual gradient from West to East) that I see no feasible answer.
  - kutakbash 13y ago
    Do you guys consider federalisation as an option? Ukraine seems like a sufficiently big and diverse country for that. It sure as hell won't resolve the problem of which trade block to join though.
  - shitgoose 13y ago
    "beatings/vandalism to discriminate Maidan" You have to try really hard to discredit this (opposition in action): http://votarea.com/uploads/posts/2013-12/1385948933_1328475.jpg http://votarea.com/uploads/posts/2013-12/1385948933_1328475.... http://img12.nnm.me/e/c/c/b/7/2dfacaf7de32a36db9cf7794f86.jpg http://img12.nnm.me/e/c/c/b/7/2dfacaf7de32a36db9cf7794f86.jp...

apaprocki 13y ago

I agree. This is probably the best way to relate the situation to someone in the US. No one would take you seriously here if you proposed splitting "blue" states into a separate country and proposing a split there seems equally far fetched.

a8da6b0c91d 13y ago
Splitting up the United States is a perfectly reasonable idea and a lot of people take it seriously. http://www.moreright.net/splitting-apart-the-united-states http://www.moreright.net/splitting-apart-the-united-states
- protomyth 13y ago
  Given how integrated the economy and land use is, it is not a reasonable idea in the near term. If you actually were going to divide the US on a red / blue split then it would be more appropriate at a county level[1] and would result in a bunch of city-states and one big land area[2]. 1) states are not really granular enough given the existence of "battleground states" and what that means for election divisions 2) LA and SF might want to buy a desalination plant fairly quickly
  - a8da6b0c91d 13y ago
    The split is not red-blue. There are distinct regional cultures in America that might be called nations. Scroll down and look at the county map in the link. Read "American Nations".
    - protomyth 13y ago
      Yeah, I saw the MN combined with ND and realized whoever researched it (I do believe the original map is a Russian professor) has no real clue on modern American and is looking mainly at immigration patterns.

shitgoose 13y ago

I believe that Crimea (peninsula in Black Sea) wouldn't mind to go back to Russia since it has never been historically a Ukrainian territory. East of Ukraine may not be keen on becoming Russian, but sure as hell they don't want to be ruled by Western Ukraine. Differences between East and West of Ukraine run deep and go far beyond political preferences. West sees East as scum. Period. For example, when Western protestors in Kiev catch youths from the East (they call them 'titushki', or provocateurs), protesters write the word 'SLAVE' on easterners' foreheads with permanent marker: http://icdn.lenta.ru/images/2014/01/27/13/20140127131837914/detail_8d01dd6cb2f9103dd0cfc544aae2d3df.jpg http://icdn.lenta.ru/images/2014/01/27/13/20140127131837914/.... I don't think East and West in Ukraine have any future together.

dmytrish 13y ago
East also sees West as a land of rural people who do plumbing/maid work in Europe for food and are wicked nationalists/Nazis. The titushki you mentioned are not shamed just because they're from Eastern Ukraine, but of what they did in Kiev for government money (beatings/vandalism to discriminate Maidan). So I have to admit that there are some deep cultural differences, indeed. But when I try to imagine two Ukraines, there are so many questions (where to put the border - in any place it would tear apart close regions, there's no clear border, it's a huge gradual gradient from West to East) that I see no feasible answer.
- kutakbash 13y ago
  Do you guys consider federalisation as an option? Ukraine seems like a sufficiently big and diverse country for that. It sure as hell won't resolve the problem of which trade block to join though.
- shitgoose 13y ago
  "beatings/vandalism to discriminate Maidan" You have to try really hard to discredit this (opposition in action): http://votarea.com/uploads/posts/2013-12/1385948933_1328475.jpg http://votarea.com/uploads/posts/2013-12/1385948933_1328475.... http://img12.nnm.me/e/c/c/b/7/2dfacaf7de32a36db9cf7794f86.jpg http://img12.nnm.me/e/c/c/b/7/2dfacaf7de32a36db9cf7794f86.jp...