6 ms·

But I thought Silicon Valley was a meritocracy where connections didn't matter!! [/troll]

by michaelochurch 13y ago

TeMPOraL 13y ago
I don't care. I want my space rocket and electric car!
ry0ohki 13y ago
Connections may not matter, but being super smart and having a lot of money certainly helps.
- eli 13y ago
  Also... connections matter.
ig1 13y ago
Obviously connections matter. Trying to hire the best people is much much harder if you don't have connections to make the introductions and vouch for you.
- untog 13y ago
  Right, but there is a pervasive belief that tech (and particularly Silicon Valley) is purely meritocratic - despite all evidence to the contrary.
  - ig1 13y ago
    The two aren't opposites, hiring someone you've worked with before and who's skills you've seen in action is different from hiring your drinking buddy regardless of their skill level.
  - solutionyogi 13y ago
    What is 'pure meritocratic'? I don't know how you would even come up with a definition where everyone agrees that a system should be judged by 'these given rules' to be declared 'pure meritocratic'. At the end, life is much more nuanced. E.g. let's say we both decide to create competitor to Yelp. We both are smart, driven and we will produce a high quality, spam free alternative to Yelp. However, we need funding to achieve this goal. We both went to school with someone who is now partner at VC firm. But I was his very good friend v/s you, who was just a classmate to him. He is very well aware that both of us are smart, hard working individuals. Who do you think is he going to fund? Do you think it's un-meritocratic for him to pick me over you? Life is not black and white, it has five million shades of grey. We do not have perfect solutions for everything but rather a 'best solution' for the situation at end. I believe that Silicon Valley is the most (not pure) meritocratic place on earth. This is similar to the debate of capitalism. Capitalism is not perfect, it has many problems. But compared to all the other alternatives human race have tried (socialism, anarchism, communism), it is the best option.
  - mahyarm 13y ago
    You can create that 'meritocratic rep' by creating something that not many other people can do, with software. As you become involved in the community providing value, people would want to work with you more just by the results of your work. That is what is meant by 'meritocratic'.
  - pbreit 13y ago
    That's baloney, no one thinks that. Connections matter but if you're good, you can get good jobs, found companies and raise money.
  - Gracana 13y ago
    I really like that the folks at Github recently changed their stance on this. http://readwrite.com/2014/01/24/github-meritocracy-rug http://readwrite.com/2014/01/24/github-meritocracy-rug [edit] Wow, those comments. Lewis' Law in action... maybe I should have linked somewhere else.
    - jljljl 13y ago
      Had to look up Lewis' Law: "the comments on any article about feminism justify feminism" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Helen_Lewis_(journalist)#Lewis.27s_law http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Helen_Lewis_(journalist)#Lewis....
      - Crake 13y ago
        http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Circular_reasoning http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Circular_reasoning
    - Crake 13y ago
      I think it's sad, mostly. The rug is really cute. I hadn't seen it before; I wish they'd kept it.
  - TeMPOraL 13y ago
    I think "meritocratic" also means that if I'm good, I can ask someone, who will refer me to someone, who will refer me to someone who will give me a job / invest in my startup, because the people recommending trust each adjacent link in the chain that it won't suggest someone who isn't good. Such recommendations, on average, might be even better than job interviews as a way to find talent.
_delirium 13y ago
Many of them were pretty well-connected even pre-PayPal, mostly in finance. Peter Thiel, for example, was a already a hedge-fund manager by the time he co-founded PayPal.
bfe 13y ago
Look back 4 or 5 years prior to the founding of X.com/Confinity/PayPal: Elon Musk was a South African-born undergrad at Pennsylvania, Peter Thiel was a German-born lawyer trading derivatives at Credit Suisse, and Max Levchin was a Ukrainian-born undergrad at Illinois. Now, which comes first in Silicon Valley: merit or connections?
- vonmoltke 13y ago
  > Elon Musk was a South African-born undergrad at Pennsylvania Who first emigrated to Canada, where he attended Canada's most prestigious business school for two years before transferring to the United States' most prestigious business school. > Peter Thiel was a German-born lawyer trading derivatives at Credit Suisse After which he ran his own hedge fund for two years, then co-founded PayPal. These guys certainly had more merit than many people, but to hold them up as people who succeeded with merit over connections is silly.
  - bfe 13y ago
    Musk first arrived in Canada alone at 17 with very little money and worked manual labor jobs to make ends meet. When he first got to Silicon Valley he basically spent his first six months there locked away in his room coding the initial version of Zip2 which he co-founded with his little brother. What more do you want to decide someone succeeded by their own intelligence and drive as opposed to connections?
    - Consultant32452 13y ago
      Can we agree that, to a certain extent, both are necessary?
      - bfe 13y ago
        How about, can we agree that when you spend years achieving great successes, you tend to form relationships of trust with high-performing colleagues who learn to value your drive and intelligence and to look forward to helping you or working with you again? That still seems like a boundary value at one end of the personal merit vs. connections continuum of drivers of success, as contrasted with the other end of the continuum, which we might define as being a VP at JP Morgan because your dad is on the politburo standing committee of the PRC.
tlogan 13y ago
Of course connections do matter. They are actually very important. You need to hire. You need to market. You need to sell. And who is actually saying that Silicon Valley is a meritocracy? [ I did noticed, that VCs and especially incubators will sometimes say that "connections didn't matter" and they only "invest based on meritocracy" because they want show to others (the next people in chain of investment) that they always fund "best of the best". But VCs and incubators are investors so why to take their view of society as correct? ]

But I thought Silicon Valley was a meritocracy where connections didn't matter!! [/troll]

TeMPOraL 13y ago

I don't care. I want my space rocket and electric car!

ry0ohki 13y ago

Connections may not matter, but being super smart and having a lot of money certainly helps.

eli 13y ago
Also... connections matter.

ig1 13y ago

Obviously connections matter. Trying to hire the best people is much much harder if you don't have connections to make the introductions and vouch for you.

untog 13y ago
Right, but there is a pervasive belief that tech (and particularly Silicon Valley) is purely meritocratic - despite all evidence to the contrary.
- ig1 13y ago
  The two aren't opposites, hiring someone you've worked with before and who's skills you've seen in action is different from hiring your drinking buddy regardless of their skill level.
- solutionyogi 13y ago
  What is 'pure meritocratic'? I don't know how you would even come up with a definition where everyone agrees that a system should be judged by 'these given rules' to be declared 'pure meritocratic'. At the end, life is much more nuanced. E.g. let's say we both decide to create competitor to Yelp. We both are smart, driven and we will produce a high quality, spam free alternative to Yelp. However, we need funding to achieve this goal. We both went to school with someone who is now partner at VC firm. But I was his very good friend v/s you, who was just a classmate to him. He is very well aware that both of us are smart, hard working individuals. Who do you think is he going to fund? Do you think it's un-meritocratic for him to pick me over you? Life is not black and white, it has five million shades of grey. We do not have perfect solutions for everything but rather a 'best solution' for the situation at end. I believe that Silicon Valley is the most (not pure) meritocratic place on earth. This is similar to the debate of capitalism. Capitalism is not perfect, it has many problems. But compared to all the other alternatives human race have tried (socialism, anarchism, communism), it is the best option.
- mahyarm 13y ago
  You can create that 'meritocratic rep' by creating something that not many other people can do, with software. As you become involved in the community providing value, people would want to work with you more just by the results of your work. That is what is meant by 'meritocratic'.
- pbreit 13y ago
  That's baloney, no one thinks that. Connections matter but if you're good, you can get good jobs, found companies and raise money.
- Gracana 13y ago
  I really like that the folks at Github recently changed their stance on this. http://readwrite.com/2014/01/24/github-meritocracy-rug http://readwrite.com/2014/01/24/github-meritocracy-rug [edit] Wow, those comments. Lewis' Law in action... maybe I should have linked somewhere else.
  - jljljl 13y ago
    Had to look up Lewis' Law: "the comments on any article about feminism justify feminism" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Helen_Lewis_(journalist)#Lewis.27s_law http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Helen_Lewis_(journalist)#Lewis....
    - Crake 13y ago
      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Circular_reasoning http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Circular_reasoning
  - Crake 13y ago
    I think it's sad, mostly. The rug is really cute. I hadn't seen it before; I wish they'd kept it.
- TeMPOraL 13y ago
  I think "meritocratic" also means that if I'm good, I can ask someone, who will refer me to someone, who will refer me to someone who will give me a job / invest in my startup, because the people recommending trust each adjacent link in the chain that it won't suggest someone who isn't good. Such recommendations, on average, might be even better than job interviews as a way to find talent.

_delirium 13y ago

Many of them were pretty well-connected even pre-PayPal, mostly in finance. Peter Thiel, for example, was a already a hedge-fund manager by the time he co-founded PayPal.

bfe 13y ago

Look back 4 or 5 years prior to the founding of X.com/Confinity/PayPal: Elon Musk was a South African-born undergrad at Pennsylvania, Peter Thiel was a German-born lawyer trading derivatives at Credit Suisse, and Max Levchin was a Ukrainian-born undergrad at Illinois. Now, which comes first in Silicon Valley: merit or connections?

vonmoltke 13y ago
> Elon Musk was a South African-born undergrad at Pennsylvania Who first emigrated to Canada, where he attended Canada's most prestigious business school for two years before transferring to the United States' most prestigious business school. > Peter Thiel was a German-born lawyer trading derivatives at Credit Suisse After which he ran his own hedge fund for two years, then co-founded PayPal. These guys certainly had more merit than many people, but to hold them up as people who succeeded with merit over connections is silly.
- bfe 13y ago
  Musk first arrived in Canada alone at 17 with very little money and worked manual labor jobs to make ends meet. When he first got to Silicon Valley he basically spent his first six months there locked away in his room coding the initial version of Zip2 which he co-founded with his little brother. What more do you want to decide someone succeeded by their own intelligence and drive as opposed to connections?
  - Consultant32452 13y ago
    Can we agree that, to a certain extent, both are necessary?
    - bfe 13y ago
      How about, can we agree that when you spend years achieving great successes, you tend to form relationships of trust with high-performing colleagues who learn to value your drive and intelligence and to look forward to helping you or working with you again? That still seems like a boundary value at one end of the personal merit vs. connections continuum of drivers of success, as contrasted with the other end of the continuum, which we might define as being a VP at JP Morgan because your dad is on the politburo standing committee of the PRC.

tlogan 13y ago

Of course connections do matter. They are actually very important. You need to hire. You need to market. You need to sell. And who is actually saying that Silicon Valley is a meritocracy? [ I did noticed, that VCs and especially incubators will sometimes say that "connections didn't matter" and they only "invest based on meritocracy" because they want show to others (the next people in chain of investment) that they always fund "best of the best". But VCs and incubators are investors so why to take their view of society as correct? ]