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That's kind of my point. If there's no love from the core devs to solve real problems that the community has then what are our choices? Having to throw up kick

That's kind of my point. If there's no love from the core devs to solve real problems that the community has then what are our choices? Having to throw up kick starters for every feature is unreasonable. Migrations were something that SO many people wanted and the core devs didn't even think to add it. It had to be merged in by a random person in the community for $30,000 and it also took 14 months assuming Django ships 1.7 in May going by their roadmap. That is 14 months and $30,000 to get a feature into the framework while already having a tested and battle hardened implementation as a third party module.

rbanffy 13y ago
> solve real problems that the community has Define "real". Like I told you, it doesn't bother me. > Migrations were something that SO many people wanted You are right - and we had South for it and we used it a lot. Integrating South into Django's core was not a trivial effort, however, but, again, since we already had South, it was not a big issue. > That is 14 months and $30,000 to get a feature into the framework while already having a tested and battle hardened implementation as a third party module. IIRC, the 30K were paid to the third party who created South to build a better migration engine it into Django. You can continue to use South for as long as you want. It's just that, starting with 1.7, you'll get migrations built in and South will no longer be required. I still fail to see why do you think everybody has to be concerned with the problems you find important. If it bothers you so much, then solve it. edit: corrected the character of the effort
- antelopesalad 13y ago
  You seem to have a grudge against the world for some reason. Why are your posts so hostile? Do you not see the bigger picture? The runserver problem is only 1 thing. People are expecting to be fed tens of thousands of dollars through kickstarter to create features that people want instead of the core django devs implementing them. The reason why rails has an amazing development experience has nothing to do with rail's API or ruby. It's because rails is extracted and built out of a product that some of the core devs work with 24/7 (basecamp). They add useful things like a development server that isn't garbage because they work with it on a daily basis full time. I don't want to see Django fall over because they don't add any features that people actually want and instead force the community to beg for money on kick starter to do it.
  - rbanffy 13y ago
    You seem to have a misplaced sense of entitlement. I must admit I have a problem with people who have such personality issues. You are expecting developers to adapt the amazing software they made (for free) to your needs and do all that immense effort for free. You see your problems and think they should be everyone else's top priority. Should they thank you for pointing The Way? You have to understand the world does not revolve around you. Django is free as in freedom. You have the freedom to modify it to your needs. Use it.
- sethish 13y ago
  The migrations project was a re-write, not an integration with South. Common misconception, but the new migrations implementation is actually better than South's.
  - antelopesalad 13y ago
    That's even worse. So the author of south threw out all of his work and re-wrote it from the ground up rather than the core devs just working on it? That's disgusting...
    - rbanffy 13y ago
      What is disgusting is a lazy coward creating a throwaway account to complain about the lack of generosity of people far more capable - and generous - then themselves. Stop hiding.
      - rbanffy 13y ago
        I see the coward has a regular account and is capable of downvoting...
      - antelopesalad 13y ago
        Except you could go look for yourself on Google and see this is my normal IRC name and if you wanted to read the conversation that sparked this topic since I'm pretty sure the #django IRC logs are public. You can accuse me of down voting you but you're accusations are misplaced. I wouldn't waste my time. How about you go ask the site owner to check who down voted you. I will bet my life that it's not associated to my IP address or this account. Go troll someone else man and lay off the insults, it makes you look like you're a child.
        rbanffy 13y ago
        So, this is your first access to Hacker News? Why should I believe it? BTW, an SSD would be much cheaper than paying for someone else to solve your problems.

rbanffy 13y ago

> solve real problems that the community has Define "real". Like I told you, it doesn't bother me. > Migrations were something that SO many people wanted You are right - and we had South for it and we used it a lot. Integrating South into Django's core was not a trivial effort, however, but, again, since we already had South, it was not a big issue. > That is 14 months and $30,000 to get a feature into the framework while already having a tested and battle hardened implementation as a third party module. IIRC, the 30K were paid to the third party who created South to build a better migration engine it into Django. You can continue to use South for as long as you want. It's just that, starting with 1.7, you'll get migrations built in and South will no longer be required. I still fail to see why do you think everybody has to be concerned with the problems you find important. If it bothers you so much, then solve it. edit: corrected the character of the effort

antelopesalad 13y ago
You seem to have a grudge against the world for some reason. Why are your posts so hostile? Do you not see the bigger picture? The runserver problem is only 1 thing. People are expecting to be fed tens of thousands of dollars through kickstarter to create features that people want instead of the core django devs implementing them. The reason why rails has an amazing development experience has nothing to do with rail's API or ruby. It's because rails is extracted and built out of a product that some of the core devs work with 24/7 (basecamp). They add useful things like a development server that isn't garbage because they work with it on a daily basis full time. I don't want to see Django fall over because they don't add any features that people actually want and instead force the community to beg for money on kick starter to do it.
- rbanffy 13y ago
  You seem to have a misplaced sense of entitlement. I must admit I have a problem with people who have such personality issues. You are expecting developers to adapt the amazing software they made (for free) to your needs and do all that immense effort for free. You see your problems and think they should be everyone else's top priority. Should they thank you for pointing The Way? You have to understand the world does not revolve around you. Django is free as in freedom. You have the freedom to modify it to your needs. Use it.
sethish 13y ago
The migrations project was a re-write, not an integration with South. Common misconception, but the new migrations implementation is actually better than South's.
- antelopesalad 13y ago
  That's even worse. So the author of south threw out all of his work and re-wrote it from the ground up rather than the core devs just working on it? That's disgusting...
  - rbanffy 13y ago
    What is disgusting is a lazy coward creating a throwaway account to complain about the lack of generosity of people far more capable - and generous - then themselves. Stop hiding.
    - rbanffy 13y ago
      I see the coward has a regular account and is capable of downvoting...
    - antelopesalad 13y ago
      Except you could go look for yourself on Google and see this is my normal IRC name and if you wanted to read the conversation that sparked this topic since I'm pretty sure the #django IRC logs are public. You can accuse me of down voting you but you're accusations are misplaced. I wouldn't waste my time. How about you go ask the site owner to check who down voted you. I will bet my life that it's not associated to my IP address or this account. Go troll someone else man and lay off the insults, it makes you look like you're a child.
      - rbanffy 13y ago
        So, this is your first access to Hacker News? Why should I believe it? BTW, an SSD would be much cheaper than paying for someone else to solve your problems.