5 ms·

So let me get this straight--if you make it through the gauntlet of rather arbitrary, hype-driven judgements, you get a whopping $10k and you have to move to th

by korch 17y ago

So let me get this straight--if you make it through the gauntlet of rather arbitrary, hype-driven judgements, you get a whopping $10k and you have to move to the Bay, which has among the highest real estate and cost of living in the country? How is this not a complete waste of time since it's so exploitive of developers? Oh, that's right, being part of the startup-hype bubble machine entitles you to a magic wand that allows you to step beyond economic reality. Wave the wand, voila! we're so awesome, we're the next Google, we might as well print our own money! If you're a good developer, you'd probably do better soliciting micro-loans through paypal and Prosper. I suspect any developer who has another option takes it. I myself have several modest software ideas I've been kicking around for two years that might have a small chance for making a good startup. But being paid a subsistence wage, even as an alpha-stage startup, is worse than just keeping the ol'day job and pushing the prototypes as a hobby. Y-Combinator seems to be more for high school and college kids along the lines of Google's annual summer of code.

nicara 17y ago
Most of the value in YC comes from meeting interesting (read: influential) people, learning a thing or two, and, seeing how important it is to know people to get a job, networking - surely it can't hurt to know people if you're running your own business, I'd even go as far and say it's more important than if you were just on the lookout for a regular job. It's not really about the money.
wmf 17y ago
This has been covered before, but maybe you didn't see it: YC is about the advice, not the money. And originally it was targeted at college kids, for whom the restrictions aren't that restrictive.
netsp 17y ago
I don't understand this approach to criticism. You are saying that the cost/benefit equation doesn't makes sense. OK. This has been discussed before and you can expect get the same responses you have heard before and found unconvincing. If you do not think that doing these things (full time startup, moving, taking investment, etc.) are a good idea generally, it can easily follow that YC is a bad idea. Then you seem to take this in a silly direction. You imply that everyone else (or at least most other competent people) will agree with you. That is evidently not true. People apply. Out of those, some are competent and ultimately successful. Obviously the cost/benefit equation made sense to them.
- korch 17y ago
  I would be interested hearing about the cost/benefit analysis from YC funded groups after they have been funded and/or moved on. The only way to move beyond subjective and hypothetical judgements like we're making is (obviously) to measure tangible success. Just like how various scientific fields are painfully aware of 'survivor bias' and maintain journals devoted solely to the topic.
  - swolchok 17y ago
    It is likely not in the economic interest of these groups to say anything negative about YC, even if they have moved on.
  - netsp 17y ago
    That would still be subjective anecdote. The only non subjective you have to go by is this. Many people have decided that YC good for them.
brk 17y ago
How is it that you'd had an account here for 179 days, a small bit of karma accumulated, and yet it seems that this is your first exposure to the concept of YC and the sorts of folks who are attracted to this particular startup launch path?
jamiequint 17y ago
YC for us was much more about the connections than the money. It makes getting in the door a lot of places much easier, VCs/Angels are big on referrals and YC is kind of an insta-referral to anyone you want to talk to. The value of YC also depends largely on what kind of company you want to start. If you're looking to start a small shop making $500k-$2M (max) a year in revenue with 2-3 people than YC probably isn't for you because that type of business is not venture fundable and thus the venture connections that YC can get you aren't really worth much. However, if you're looking at something that has the potential to be VC backed scale ($10M/yr+ at some point in the future) then the introductions and connections are necessary and the value of YC is clear. Also, I would add that I think the YC alumni network has become one of the most valuable parts of YC. There are enough alums now that basically someone has had experience with what you are going through and can offer good advice, imho that is the hardest thing about YC to duplicate.
- messel 17y ago
  This is a great sales pitch for YC, wish it was on their application sheet Jamie :). I've been wanting to move out to San Jose anyway...
- Mz 17y ago
  How would one determine which category they likely fall in ($2M max or $10M+ potential)?
  - siong1987 17y ago
    You can ask yourself: Can your startup make 500M in 10 years time? If the answer is YES, then, you're in that group.
    - Mz 17y ago
      I don't know if that's a useful answer for me. There is currently about $3B/year being spent on something I have a cheaper, better solution for. The problem is everyone thinks I'm crazy. There is a huge gap between current thinking on the problem and my thinking on the problem. So most sources of revenue currently available to pay that $3B/year bill would be unlikely to be available to pay for any product I put out there. Also, since my solution drastically shrinks costs, it wouldn't be a $3B/year market. $3B is grossly inefficient. I can't begin to guesstimate what the market would be worth for my solutions.
rms 17y ago
http://www.paulgraham.com/equity.html http://www.paulgraham.com/equity.html
- messel 17y ago
  Huh, somehow missed this one previously. Thanks rms
zaidf 17y ago
reading y-combinator startup competition rules. they pay you a mere 10k to be their slave & you have to move to the bay? f'ing rip off! Tell that to someone who has been a real slave. And ask around founders at YC about their time during YC. Vast majority wouldn't trade it for anything.

by korch 17y ago

nicara 17y ago

Most of the value in YC comes from meeting interesting (read: influential) people, learning a thing or two, and, seeing how important it is to know people to get a job, networking - surely it can't hurt to know people if you're running your own business, I'd even go as far and say it's more important than if you were just on the lookout for a regular job. It's not really about the money.

wmf 17y ago

This has been covered before, but maybe you didn't see it: YC is about the advice, not the money. And originally it was targeted at college kids, for whom the restrictions aren't that restrictive.

netsp 17y ago

I don't understand this approach to criticism. You are saying that the cost/benefit equation doesn't makes sense. OK. This has been discussed before and you can expect get the same responses you have heard before and found unconvincing. If you do not think that doing these things (full time startup, moving, taking investment, etc.) are a good idea generally, it can easily follow that YC is a bad idea. Then you seem to take this in a silly direction. You imply that everyone else (or at least most other competent people) will agree with you. That is evidently not true. People apply. Out of those, some are competent and ultimately successful. Obviously the cost/benefit equation made sense to them.

korch 17y ago
I would be interested hearing about the cost/benefit analysis from YC funded groups after they have been funded and/or moved on. The only way to move beyond subjective and hypothetical judgements like we're making is (obviously) to measure tangible success. Just like how various scientific fields are painfully aware of 'survivor bias' and maintain journals devoted solely to the topic.
- swolchok 17y ago
  It is likely not in the economic interest of these groups to say anything negative about YC, even if they have moved on.
- netsp 17y ago
  That would still be subjective anecdote. The only non subjective you have to go by is this. Many people have decided that YC good for them.

brk 17y ago

How is it that you'd had an account here for 179 days, a small bit of karma accumulated, and yet it seems that this is your first exposure to the concept of YC and the sorts of folks who are attracted to this particular startup launch path?

jamiequint 17y ago

YC for us was much more about the connections than the money. It makes getting in the door a lot of places much easier, VCs/Angels are big on referrals and YC is kind of an insta-referral to anyone you want to talk to. The value of YC also depends largely on what kind of company you want to start. If you're looking to start a small shop making $500k-$2M (max) a year in revenue with 2-3 people than YC probably isn't for you because that type of business is not venture fundable and thus the venture connections that YC can get you aren't really worth much. However, if you're looking at something that has the potential to be VC backed scale ($10M/yr+ at some point in the future) then the introductions and connections are necessary and the value of YC is clear. Also, I would add that I think the YC alumni network has become one of the most valuable parts of YC. There are enough alums now that basically someone has had experience with what you are going through and can offer good advice, imho that is the hardest thing about YC to duplicate.

messel 17y ago
This is a great sales pitch for YC, wish it was on their application sheet Jamie :). I've been wanting to move out to San Jose anyway...
Mz 17y ago
How would one determine which category they likely fall in ($2M max or $10M+ potential)?
- siong1987 17y ago
  You can ask yourself: Can your startup make 500M in 10 years time? If the answer is YES, then, you're in that group.
  - Mz 17y ago
    I don't know if that's a useful answer for me. There is currently about $3B/year being spent on something I have a cheaper, better solution for. The problem is everyone thinks I'm crazy. There is a huge gap between current thinking on the problem and my thinking on the problem. So most sources of revenue currently available to pay that $3B/year bill would be unlikely to be available to pay for any product I put out there. Also, since my solution drastically shrinks costs, it wouldn't be a $3B/year market. $3B is grossly inefficient. I can't begin to guesstimate what the market would be worth for my solutions.

rms 17y ago

http://www.paulgraham.com/equity.html http://www.paulgraham.com/equity.html

messel 17y ago
Huh, somehow missed this one previously. Thanks rms

zaidf 17y ago

reading y-combinator startup competition rules. they pay you a mere 10k to be their slave & you have to move to the bay? f'ing rip off! Tell that to someone who has been a real slave. And ask around founders at YC about their time during YC. Vast majority wouldn't trade it for anything.