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Salesforce CEO Benioff on How to Fix San Francisco
- refurb 13y agoI think these buses — which if you hang out in the Mission, [they come] every five minutes — they’ve got to be massively regulated, we have to get them off our streets. Really? He thinks that's the solution? And what? Have all those employees drive? I can understand why people target the shuttle buses, they are a highly visible indicator of the kind of wealth moving into the the area, but I think there are better solutions than just getting rid of them.
- gyc 13y agoOf course he wants to get rid of the busses. Salesforce is located in San Francisco. If highly talented tech workers are forced to drive or take public transportation down to Mountain View, working at Salesforce starts to look like a very attractive option.
- waterlesscloud 13y agoIsn't that a better option, to work where you live?
- baddox 13y agoAccording to this report, 8.1% of Americans commute more than an hour, which I assume is slightly longer than the Google bus ride from SF. 23% of these Americans use public transit. It hardly seems unreasonable to live in SF and work in Mountain View. edit: forgot the link. http://www.census.gov/newsroom/releases/archives/american_community_survey_acs/cb13-41.html http://www.census.gov/newsroom/releases/archives/american_co...
- doktrin 13y agoThe penalty of a commute is not simply measured in time. Commuting from SF to MV, Menlo, or really anywhere on the Peninsula with public transit is kind of ridiculous. Given the lack of Caltrain stops in the city, coupled with the fact that just about none of the large tech companies are based near Caltrain stations on the other end means at least 2 transfers (bus -> caltrain -> shuttle). I can attest that it is very difficult to get any meaningful work done when you're hopping on and off busses and trains every 25 minutes. Contrast this with a luxury coach shuttle bus, which is a wi-fi enabled productive commute. Even if they were to take precisely as many minutes, they really are polar opposites on the pain spectrum (first world problems class pain, but still pain).
- Crito 13y agoA better option than working for who you would like to work for? No, it isn't a better option. If it were a better option, then people would make that decision regardless of the damn buses.
- tsotha 13y agoI don't understand why people target the shuttle buses. For decades I've been hearing all about those rotten suburban commuters who make money in the city and pay taxes somewhere else. Now we have a group of people doing exactly the opposite and somehow they're rotten too.
- BlackDeath3 13y agoBecause wealth is clearly a zero-sum game. If I'm poor, it's because you're wealthy, and that's your fault! Right?
- robinhoode 13y agoHaving money makes you a target. Period.
- Crito 13y agoIt is simple: People just love being jealous of those who have slightly more than them. Neighbor Jim buys a car every 4 years, and you buy a car every 6 years? Obviously Jim is an asshole scumbag. Neighbor Sam has a swimming pool, but your kids just have some squirt guns? Don't even get me started on that guy!
- waterlesscloud 13y agoThey could both make money and live in the city, which would make the city a better place. Turning the city into a bedroom community is bad for the city. It works in suburbs because suburbs are designed that way. Sprawl, low density, distribution of goods and services. Cities are not designed that way. High density produces higher rents, for homes and for businesses. Businesses with high rents can't survive when the neighborhood is only occupied at night and on weekends. What you have here are people who want the advantages of this city, but aren't around enough to make it worth providing those advantages. The medium term outcome of this is pretty clear- many businesses in SF are going to go under. Most of what makes SF unique is going to be driven out by cost. What you'll be left with is some sort of bizarre bedroom city that no one really enjoys any more. And then what?
- 13y ago
- tzs 13y agoAre the buses really running every 5 minutes? If so, is that just during a couple hours? How full are they?
- BlackDeath3 13y agoIt's so silly that people would have to avoid riding a shuttle bus to work, fearing for their safety because it makes them look too wealthy.
- rayiner 13y agoMany people see the busses as a distraction issue, but they're a lot more important than they seem at face value. They're basically a microcosm of how the social fabric of a city is structured. New York City can be justly criticized for its wealth inequality, but you have to give it one thing: it's a place where a managing director at JPM and a guy who works at the Starbucks in the building ride the same midtown subway or bus to work in the morning. And that's a start. Public infrastructure works best when everyone has a stake in it. It's bad to have the rich ride around in their own private shuttles, but it's also bad for the rich to bankroll public busses they never use. Neither is a path to building a sustainable, functioning city.
- dthal 13y agoI'm pretty sure most managing directors at downtown banks aren't taking the subway or the bus too often. They get driven around, just not in shuttle buses.
- infinotize 13y agoThis is like how Bloomberg would take the subway* once in a while. *Get driven in his convoy from his house to the subway station.
- rayiner 13y agoBloomberg would take the subway 10 stops about three days a week. He got driven to 59 street, skipping 2 stops, which is the nearest station that has express service on the 4. That's pretty legit.
- saryant 13y agoJohn Paulson, the investor responsible for the single biggest trade in Wall St. history which netted him $4 billion personally, routinely took the public bus to his office.
- rayiner 13y agoYour rank-and-file MD isn't getting driven to work. He or she is taking Metro North from Westchester or LIRR from Long Island. There'a lot of people making $500k-5m in New York who take public transit or walk to work.
- gatehouse 13y agoIt is zero-sum thinking. If it makes your neighbour poorer you feel richer. Pointless internecine conflict.
- rayiner 13y agoThere's a hidden assumption in the phrase "zero-sum" which is that the social impact of someone getting 10% of 100 and someone else getting 90% of 100 is the same as that of someone getting 5% of 200 and someone else getting 95% of 200. Peoples' absolute level of consumption isn't zero-sum over time, but peoples' share of total consumption at any given instant is indeed zero-sum. And people respond to the latter much more than to the former.
- gatehouse 13y agoYeah, that is precisely what I am criticizing. When you take away the time dimension nothing can change -- stasis is static. Immigration is driving up prices, so the solution is regulation to make the city less appealing economically to non-residents. Anyway -- I'm not equipped for a serious discussion of West-Coast urbanization since I've never even set foot there, but I don't think Benioff is even coherent, he is suggesting more regulation and then civil disobedience in the next breath.
- djs123sdj 13y agoThis is clearly a slimy attempt to dodge his own company's role in the problems. He's CEO of a multi-billion dollar tech company, based in San Francisco, with probably more highly-paid employees living in SF than than the companies that run the buses. If you buy the specious argument that the affordable housing problems are caused by tech companies, and not by NIMBY housing development laws, I'd guess his employees living in SF, by sheer numbers, are doing more to drive up the cost of housing in SF than the others. And let's not forget the the lack of affordable housing is the fundamental issue that the bus protesters are upset about. EDIT: clarification.
- doktrin 13y ago> Really? He thinks that's the solution? And what? Have all those employees drive? Removing SF shuttle busses, while certainly unpleasant[1], is probably one of the few measures that would exert sufficient pressure on the local governments to improve public transit and actually tackle road congestion. [1] I used to work in Menlo Park for not-Facebook, and at one point attempted the tri-fecta terri-commute of Bus + Caltrain + local shuttle. It really sucked.
- haldean 13y agoI'm currently doing the trifecta -- 101 has gotten so bad that it's actually faster than the Google bus for my evening commute.
- icambron 13y agoEr, so we should make transportation worse so that it will be better?
- doktrin 13y agoAnother way to view it would be to temporarily inconvenience a relatively privileged minority in order to benefit the region as a whole.
- saryant 13y agoTransportation policy in the Bay has been stuck in the mud for decades though, it didn't just happen recently and certainly not because some Google/Apple/Facebook workers started commuting from the city down the peninsula. Look at the Benicia Bridge debacle. Funding was approved by the voters in 1988, the new northbound span didn't open until 2007 and it was $1 billion over budget! I don't think inconveniencing some tech workers is going to have much effect on the politics in the region.
- annon 13y agoThe problem is the massive number of shuttle busses has allowed a massive number of people that work down in the valley to live in San Francisco without the hurdle of the awful commute. Usually this would happen with public transportation or better highways, and as a city is more able to shift people around, the city will either sprawl (SF can't, because it's a peninsula and people would rather live in the valley than South SF) or densify (SF won't, because the zoning laws prevent building of new high-rises or destruction of older buildings for more dense units.) Because of that, you have a large shift in the supply/demand of the housing market. Since SF is unwilling or unable to increase in sprawl or density, supply is pretty much fixed. The shuttle busses open up a river of demand though, forcing the prices up and up. Removing the shuttle busses, and I agree the idea sounds ridiculous at face value, is probably the most plausible solution right now. Making it difficult for people to commute down to Mountain View and Cupertino will cause a lot of people to move closer to their jobs, and balance the market here again.
- prostoalex 13y agoNo. Caltrain allowed a massive number of people that work down in the valley to live in San Francisco, as evidenced by the number of SOMA rental listings that make sure to include Caltrain references. Companies have been running shuttles off Caltrain stations for years. WiFi-equipped buses are just a nicer alternative to Caltrain or driving or Muni or driving+Caltrain.
- Crito 13y agoI've got an idea: Ban all buses, public or private. Then tear up roads too. Also get those pesky sidewalks out of there. Making rent plummet by destroying your city is easy!
- wozniacki 13y agoSF Public Transit has always suffered from severe urban blight. It is down right, condemnable, in some respects [1]. I am certainly not selectively harpooning the SF transit system. I do not have extensive familiarity with other places to judge whether things are just as bad, in other metropolitan areas, across the nation. Throwing good money after bad, while stubbornly refusing to tackle key problems like the dumping of their homeless populations by other states, has contributed to the current state of affairs. SF suffers from what is called a progress trap [2]. [1] http://www.sfgate.com/bayarea/article/Human-waste-shuts-down-BART-escalators-3735981.php#photo-3239743 http://www.sfgate.com/bayarea/article/Human-waste-shuts-down... http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/escalators-san-francisco-bart-transit-system-shut-treated-toilets-article-1.1123006 http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/escalators-san-fran... http://ww2.hdnux.com/photos/13/50/11/3048045/7/628x471.jpg http://ww2.hdnux.com/photos/13/50/11/3048045/7/628x471.jpg http://uptownalmanac.com/2012/07/human-feces-blamed-bart-escalator-clogging http://uptownalmanac.com/2012/07/human-feces-blamed-bart-esc... http://i.huffpost.com/gadgets/slideshows/239769/slide_239769_1251067_free.jpg?1345140534000 http://i.huffpost.com/gadgets/slideshows/239769/slide_239769... http://i.huffpost.com/gadgets/slideshows/239769/slide_239769_1251206_free.jpg?1345140534000 http://i.huffpost.com/gadgets/slideshows/239769/slide_239769... http://i.huffpost.com/gadgets/slideshows/239769/slide_239769_1251038_free.jpg?1345140534000 http://i.huffpost.com/gadgets/slideshows/239769/slide_239769... http://i.huffpost.com/gadgets/slideshows/239769/slide_239769_1251056_free.jpg?1345140534000 http://i.huffpost.com/gadgets/slideshows/239769/slide_239769... http://i.huffpost.com/gadgets/slideshows/239769/slide_239769_1251073_free.jpg?1345140534000 http://i.huffpost.com/gadgets/slideshows/239769/slide_239769... http://i.huffpost.com/gadgets/slideshows/239769/slide_239769_1251113_free.jpg?1345140534000 http://i.huffpost.com/gadgets/slideshows/239769/slide_239769... http://i.huffpost.com/gadgets/slideshows/239769/slide_239769_1251150_free.jpg?1345140534000 http://i.huffpost.com/gadgets/slideshows/239769/slide_239769... http://i.huffpost.com/gadgets/slideshows/239769/slide_239769_1251185_free.jpg?1345140534000 http://i.huffpost.com/gadgets/slideshows/239769/slide_239769... [2] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Progress_trap http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Progress_trap
- fizx 13y agoMy gym runs shuttle busses, Levi's runs shuttle busses, UCSF runs shuttle busses, and on and on... You want real disruption? Start with homemade wifi jammers.
- robd003 13y agoWhat an asshole. I'd take Tom Perkins over Benioff any day of the week.
- jpwright 13y agoI hope this is sarcasm.
- AnimalMuppet 13y agoTo both of you: Why? Can you give us more than a dogmatically-stated position? Can you give us a reason for it?
- jpwright 13y agoI don't believe I stated a position, and I didn't want to elaborate more without knowing the context of the previous comment. I would be pretty appalled if s/he seriously thinks Benioff is an asshole (over the one bus comment perhaps?) despite this being 95% about some totally reasonable views on philanthropy (especially relative to the stuff Perkins said)
- deleted 13y ago[deleted]
- jaggederest 13y agoThis sort of thing always makes me think of the classical class warfare context of charity from business. People know that the business they're conducting is damaging society at large, so they build charity in so that they can feel like they're absolved. 1% is pretty trivial, particularly since it's of profit, not revenue. Sure, it's a lot of money, but by comparison with the possible impact of a larger commitment of time and resources it looks cheap. Makes you sad to think most companies don't even do that much.
- AnimalMuppet 13y agoWell, employing thousands of people in high-paying jobs is also a pretty positive impact on society...
- ericd 13y agoIt's not always a net positive, no. If the employees make that money while not producing anything notably positive (hedge funds are a pretty good example), they're actually just sucking money out of the system, like the mythological "welfare queens" of the Reagan era but on a much larger scale, and with the pernicious side effect of looking like they're doing something useful.
- theorique 13y agoPeople know that the business they're conducting is damaging society at large, so they build charity in so that they can feel like they're absolved. Google (or Apple, or Oracle) is damaging society? Must have missed that memo. Because from where a lot of people stand, the ability to access the world's knowledge and information, communicate with loved ones, and many other tasks, from a handheld device that costs a day's pay for the average worker ... that's not really "damaging society at large" so much as it is giving people an amazing gift.
- username223 13y agoYou could use this amazing gift to read up on "externalities," then engage your mind-blowing intelligence to think about how that is relevant to this discussion.
- mattschmulen 13y agodoes benioff live in SF? I always figured him for mor of a woodside kind of guy
- mattschmulen 13y agodoes benioff live in SF? I always figured him for mor of a woodside kind of guy
- mattschmulen 13y agodoes benioff live in SF? I always figured him for mor of a woodside kind of guy
- mattschmulen 13y agodoes benioff live in SF? I always figured him for mor of a woodside kind of guy ?
- mattschmulen 13y agodoes benioff live in SF? I always figured him for mor of a woodside kind of guy ?
- pyrrhotech 13y agoI don't understand this "tech elite" nonsense. I make nearly 200k a year, and can't afford a house in San Francisco nor the Peninsula. I actually live in Hayward. Even though I suppose I could spend half my take-home on rent in those places, I'd rather not be doing this shit till the day I die... I do not feel elite by any stretch of the imagination. Sure, Benioff with his billions is elite... but us workers, we are middle class. I would argue not even upper middle class for this area.
- bherms 13y agoWhile I do agree with you (I'm living in SF making slightly above avg backend eng salary and feel broke all the time with rent, living expenses, student loans, and etc), you have to realize there are tons of people living in the bay area (even in SF itself) making $60k or less. Imagine living on that salary here. But you're right, a lot of the vitriol is designated at us -- who appear extremely wealthy because so many of us are flooding the area and pushing others out of houses -- when we're really not elite or rich by any means.
- nilkn 13y agoIf you feel that way with $200k/year, how would you feel with $50k? You are somewhat wealthy in comparison. A rule of thumb I've heard is that most people can't understand or identify with the financial concerns of anybody with an income in excess of three times their own. You're definitely in that "3x higher" class compared to a ton of people in the Bay Area.
- pyrrhotech 13y ago$50k is lower middle class in this area. I didn't say that wouldn't suck. I said that I am by no means elite. Nor upper middle class. Upper middle class people can at least afford to pick a reasonable 3/2 house in an area with good schools. I can't do that. Elite people can have mansions and multiple homes and they don't need to work. They aren't the techies riding the WiFi shuttles to work. No engineer is elite.
- 13y ago
- bherms 13y agoHow is 1% of an employees time 4 hours/month? A month is typically 4 weeks(ish) at 40 hrs per week = 160 hours * .01 = 1.6 hrs? Am I missing something?
- deleted 13y ago[deleted]
- b0b0b0b 13y agoSalesforce runs buses too.