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Screw your standing desk. How about squatting?
- falcolas 13y agoInteresting idea, but like all positions, staying in it too long can be a painful affair. A work station that supports moving to a good squatting height (along with standing and sitting) would seem like the ideal compromise.
- bmj 13y agoInteresting. I've been a desk squatter for years--I've never wanted a dedicated stand desk, but I've been able to configure my set-up to allow good posture while squatting. It certainly provides a nice break from sitting.
- Glide 13y agoI'm curious on how your desk would be arranged for squatting. This is the first I've even heard of desk squatting so I am struggling with how it would be set up.
- dublinben 13y agoIn my desk chair, squatting works exactly like sitting. I'm actually less hunched over.
- bmj 13y agoWell, the setup is pretty normal. I'm in a "normal" cubicle, using a standard keyboard, and a couple of 21" monitors that have been raised a few inches. When I squat, my arms are raised higher than there are when I am seated, but they are still at an angle that is reasonable to maintain for 15-20 minutes at a time. The monitor height is actually better when I'm squatting. I will note that in 15 years in the industry, I've not had any major ergonomic issues (some of that I attribute to rock climbing), so I'm certainly not suggesting this particular setup for everyone.
- Glide 13y agoOk that makes a lot of sense. I'm going to assume you're squatting in a chair as well. That or you have a ridiculously long torso. 15-20 minutes seems kind of a short amount of time compared to standing though. I think you should stress that latter part more actually. Being healthy isn't just what a person can do in one area but in all areas.
- tigeba 13y agoI have also done this for many years at work. Co-workers generally referred to this position as 'the vulture' which upon reflection, sounds a lot better than 'squatting'.
- quarterto 13y agoAfter wading through the article's obnoxious style, we see it provides no tangible arguments against standing, nor for squatting. In fact, the only argument against standing is that it's uncomfortable, and then the rest of the article is spent explaining how to make squatting less uncomfortable. Squatting for more than 5 minutes would probably make my knees explode.
- fersho311 13y agoyou are probably doing the western squat. If you watch the video in the blog, asian squat is considerable more comfortable and do not cause knee pains.
- swombat 13y agoMostly because you don't squat properly and/or aren't used to squatting... In China, until recently, all toilets were basically squatting toilets, yet octogenarians had no issue squatting to use them... how old are you that you can't do for 5 minutes what an 80 year old can do several times a day?
- TheCraiggers 13y agoDid you mean to ask "how old are you that you can't do [something you've never done before in your life and thus don't have the muscles for it] for five minutes what an 80 year old [who has done it every day of their life and thus has the required muscles] can do several times a day"? Also, I'd like to point out the differences in length of time between taking a shit and a normal 8 hour work day. I'm not saying this is impossible, but I understand the trepidation.
- devcpp 13y agoSame goes for sitting toilets though. And we still don't have any arguments supporting either position. I do squat for a few minutes every day to facilitate my squat lifting workout but don't see an inherent benefit. I suppose one can argue that it has been a natural movement for so long that our bodies may be genetically designed for it.
- dagw 13y agoArguing standing vs sitting (vs squatting) is missing the point. It's not an either or proposition. Holding any one position for a long time is bad. A good desk should be quick and easy to move from sitting height to standing height, and you switch between them regularly.
- trentmb 13y agoOr just get a drafting stool.
- taeric 13y agoI was thinking this. Ironically, this fits with the original vision for cubicles, as I heard it. You could arrange multiple "desks" if you will, so that you could switch between them easily. I don't believe I have seen this done, though. Nor do I have any references. Apologies.
- emiljbs 13y agoIt's not about standing vs squatting, it's sitting down vs squatting (especially on the toilet) that's the big point.
- dabernathy89 13y agoThis sounds like it would cause my kneecaps to explode.
- xutopia 13y agoExcept some of us are morphologically incapable of squatting the restful way: http://themovementfix.com/the-best-kept-secret-why-people-have-to-squat-differently/ http://themovementfix.com/the-best-kept-secret-why-people-ha...
- anigbrowl 13y agoGreat explanation, but what an awful awful site design. The last thing I want an image to when I move my mouse over it is twitch and suddenly display less information.
- Glide 13y agoI had thought most of the squatting talk on this was about more weightlifting type squatting and not just being able to rest in a squatting position. Unless a deep squat = squatting restfully. Which is hard to argue that it's not due to lack of flexibility.
- asdasf 13y agoExcept that provides absolutely no evidence to support the hypothesis. People have variations in wrists and forearms too, it does not follow that some people are "morphologically incapable" of using a mouse for example.
- chadwickthebold 13y agoGoing out on a limb here - I think this is satire.
- notacoward 13y agoDumbest idea ever. The hyper-fit guy sitting in the gym isn't looking too bad, though having the knees rotated that far out for any length of time isn't going to work out well. (Yes, knees-out squatting and knees-in squatting are very different things.) The woman in the second picture has the same problem, plus hyper-extending her arms and bending her wrists too far back. The third woman . . . oh, I don't even know where to start with that one. None of them are doing their vision any favors being that far from the screen, either. There's a reason they only picture twenty-somethings. I love squatting. I have ever since I was a child, and people have often commented on my tendency to squat when others would stand or sit. I also use a standing desk. Nonetheless, there's just no way whatsoever that squatting while using a computer seems like a good idea.
- cincinnatus 13y agoHow about while reading? Or thinking? It's not like "using a computer" is a monolithic activity. Electric desk frames allow you to change position throughout the day. The latest one I got (3 segment legs from geek desk) can go so low I can sit lotus in front of it.
- notacoward 13y agoYes, changing positions is really the key. That's why I have an Ergotron sit/stand mount for my monitor, and I use it in both modes. I also tend to pace a lot when I don't need to be looking at the monitor. (One of the nice things about working at home is that nobody complains about that.) I'm sure squatting is fine and even good exercise once in a while, but this article is presenting it as a primary position for extended periods and that's just crazy.
- troymc 13y agoI can see how using a standard keyboard while squatting could be problematic. However, I suspect it may possible to design a new input device (or mechanism) that's optimized for use while squatting. It might take time to learn, but then so does a keyboard.
- kyllo 13y ago
- CompleteMoron 13y agoI think it's satire-esque. I think sitting like that is for people who dont really "work" - or maybe I am mad because I invested in a 2k stand up desk only to be sent thousands of miles away on a job. Plus I feel like sitting like that would fill the office with farts and stuff.
- brianwawok 13y agoSquatting doesn't make you fart unless you have other serious problems.
- nawitus 13y ago>what’s with the racism, yo? That's not racism, it's a valid observation.
- placeybordeaux 13y agoThats not a serious, it's a joke.
- josh-wrale 13y agoSciatic nerve tension, anyone? Maybe it's for the best. :-)
- lazyjones 13y agoLet's think about why we gave up this position for going to the toilet, even though it allowed for better hygiene and simpler toilet designs. Is it because we "lost" this position at some point, or perhaps it wasn't that comfortable after all (for the bowels, for example)?
- cincinnatus 13y agoI think it was an accident of history in Europe. Something to do with the architecture of castles and ships perhaps. It is a shame that much of Asia is losing the squat toilet over time. I've found it to be very helpful on occasion. It dramatically reduces apparent constipation.
- kaybe 13y agoQuite a few people seem to squat on the western style toilets though.. at least that's what the signs forbidding it and the occasional footprints on the seat suggest.
- kolinko 13y agoActually, from what I heard, squatting is better for the bowels.
- lazyjones 13y agoFor emptying them, or for keeping them relaxed?
- rwhitman 13y agoIf you have a bad back or are interested in posture, there is a wonderful book (ignore the generic title) called "8 Steps to a Pain-Free Back", written by a woman who observed that people in non-Westernized cultures have very little back problems and that they exhibit natural choices in posture that we lost in the West due to various trends and furniture designs. Its a really fascinating read and explores a lot of these types of differences in posture and the positive effects on health. Edit: I did just take another spin through it and she doesn't mention squatting at all, kind of surprising that wasn't covered considering how universal it is
- eterm 13y agoDo they have less back problems or just less reporting of back problems? Culture is a complex thing, so is health. The intersection of them I wouldn't trust in the hands of laymen or self-proclaimed experts.
- rwhitman 13y agoApparently its almost unheard of in some cultures to have any sort of back problems, even after decades of physical labor etc. The premise of the book is that the reason for this is that these people are using their spines and posture in a more natural fashion, which leverages the structure of the spine better, but we don't do it in the West as the result of a kind of cultural revolt against victorian era posture norms that took place in the 1920's
- anrope 13y agoIt's true, standing desks are so last year. But why take baby steps with the squat desk? Keep your eyes open for my kickstarter yoga desk.
- Alterlife 13y agoArguably not a polite way to sit in an Indian office considering this: http://www.wikihow.com/Use-an-Indian-Bathroom http://www.wikihow.com/Use-an-Indian-Bathroom
- kissickas 13y agoIs that a fact? Arabs often have the same kind of toilet but I've never heard someone say that squatting in general is rude.
- sdegutis 13y agoI can't seem to balance as I squat with feet flat on the ground. This is hard. My kids (esp. baby) can do it just fine though. And I won't be outdone by a bunch of tiny humans!
- papa 13y agoSo true, small children do seem to squat very naturally and with great form and posture. It's a shame that this gets lost around school age (at least from what I've observed in my kids). Now as a 40-something adult who performs squats for exercise (both weighted and non) and has to fight with mobility/flexibility issues when performing this exercise, I do envy (and am somewhat awed by) the "tiny humans" in this regard.
- khafra 13y agoIt could be tendons that need stretching; but it could also be inherent anatomical differences. I have curved shins, which pushes everything from the knee up a few inches backward when I try to squat. It's physically impossible for me to do a heels-down squat without bending my back to lean forward between my knees.
- kyllo 13y agoIf that's true, you probably need to spread your knees apart more, and bend at the hip joint more to achieve full squat depth. Rounding your back == bad.
- vidarh 13y agoYou most likely lack hip and/or ankle flexibility. Practice going as deep as you can without falling over, optionally while holding onto something (for stability, try to keep the weight on your feet), and try to go deeper and/or hold for longer every day. It'll get easier.
- chromaton 13y agoFor me, the key is not keeping in one position for the whole day. That's why I chose to go with an arrangement that allows me to either sit or stand. I find myself using the standing option for about 4 hours a day. I'll use it less (sometimes not at all) if I happen to be more active during working hours. You can see details of my build here: http://planiverse.wordpress.com/2014/01/10/building-a-sit-stand-desk-for-less-than-200/ http://planiverse.wordpress.com/2014/01/10/building-a-sit-st... I think adding squatting to my set of postures should just be a matter of getting a rigid chair and squatting on that. Finally, if you do sit, I recommend getting a seat pad designed for wheelchairs. People who can't walk must do a LOT of sitting, so wheelchair seats must be comfortable.
- cLeEOGPw 13y agoEastern Europeans have been always doing it already http://slavsquat.com/ http://slavsquat.com/
- _nullandnull_ 13y agothat is the weirdest site I have seen in a while...
- zalew 13y agoas a Pole it's so obvious for me I didn't realize it was a thing, and reading the article the 1st thing I thought is why they don't do it so.
- hectip 13y agoWhat about using a harness to support yourself upright, but without the stress on your legs. Or, one of Honda's Exoskeleton devices http://www.gizmag.com/honda-leasing-walking-assist-device-exoskeleton/27681/ http://www.gizmag.com/honda-leasing-walking-assist-device-ex....
- _nullandnull_ 13y agoI learned this technique when I was backpacking through Vietnam. I noticed that many of the people were squatting rather then sitting. Then while touring the Cu Chi tunnels outside of Ho Chi Minh City our guide explained why the tunnels/holes were so small. It's because the soldiers would sit in this squat position for hours. Once you start doing it often you can do it longer and longer. I usually sit like this while I am in between sets at the gym.
- PagingCraig 13y agoTrying to take an unconditioned person and telling them to hold a deep squat like that for hours = injuries all over. They'll lack ankle flexibility and whatnot.
- vidarh 13y agoA person unused to squatting will often have problems holding a squat for 30 seconds, if able to get down into a squat in the first place. I very much doubt that injuries would be a problem simply because the position is nearly impossible to hold for prolonged periods until you've developed the flexibility needed.
- deleted 13y ago[deleted]
- ris 13y agoI personally do naturally sit like this, but I don't think it's good for circulation in the legs. I do worry about DVTs.
- MichaelTieso 13y agoSquatting itself is common in China. After a year in China, I got use to squat toilets although I still preferred toilets. But I found it odd when they would squat in the middle of the sidewalk or street and be so close to the ground. The Chinese swear by it though that it's healthy for your knees and back if you squat.
- jackgavigan 13y agoI'd love to be able to do this but I can't keep my centre of gravity over my feet if I put my feet flat on the floor (no matter how widely I spread my knees), so I just end up toppling over backwards. If I do it with my back against a wall, my knees start to hurt after about 30 seconds. I just don't think my body is designed to squat like that. Or do the lotus position, for that matter.
- freshfey 13y agoTry to do the challenge (mentioned in the article) and go down as far as you comfortably can. You're probably lacking range in the hips or the ankles and this will fix itself with time. Basically because you weren't in this position for a long time, your body doesn't "allow" you this position, because it thinks you might hurt yourself while doing it. But once you get used to the position, you'll ease into it with time.
- brady747 13y agohttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3WOpb8PrrSc http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3WOpb8PrrSc and http://www.youtube.com/blogs/mobilitywod http://www.youtube.com/blogs/mobilitywod starting with 10 minute squat test: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7XwKnk16Zbs http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7XwKnk16Zbs You're welcome :) Life changing.
- iopq 13y agoYou have long legs, that's why.
- dota168 13y agoThird-world squats http://www.t-nation.com/readArticle.do?id=1856085 http://www.t-nation.com/readArticle.do?id=1856085
- pessimizer 13y agoHipsters, please make this a trend. The only place I sit properly is at work, and I hate it. I have no interest in a standing desk. I would love to sit on my calves and heels all day at the office, just like I sit at home when working on something. I don't care what kind of dubious health claims have to be made. Get it done!
- udkl 13y agoHow about real exercise instead of an excuse for one ?
- rockLAWbster 13y agoAnyone who has ever went camping knows how efficient the squat position is compared sitting...
- ChikkaChiChi 13y agoIf people begin squatting at their desks, I'm patenting under-knee deodorant.
- Tomis02 13y agoGoogle Cache: http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:KJ58rS6WC-EJ:bitehype.com/screw-your-standing-desk-how-about-squatting/+&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:KJ58rS6...
- iopq 13y agomy proportions don't let me do this, I have very long legs, I'm 6'4" and have a medium length torso and my extra height is in legs with such extreme proportions it's not possible to do it comfortably since I need to squat inside my knees so I need to turn the knees outside to squat between them this is probably not very healthy
- kyllo 13y agoSure it is. In powerlifting, when performing a barbell squat, you are supposed to spread your knees apart and squat down in between your legs. This is proper technique and reduces the stress on the knee joint, transferring the load to the glutes and hamstrings. I don't see why it would be unhealthy for you to do it without weight on your back.
- iopq 13y agoI can't squat below parallel without getting pain in my hip joint and/or knees after a while. I am not built for low squatting, and especially not for going ass to grass. A lot of longer-limbed people can't hit full depth in a proper position.
- kyllo 13y agoI have long femurs as well and can't squat comfortably for very long periods of time either, it feels like it cuts off the blood flow in my knees, but I would argue that that is most likely due to years of adaptation to a life of sitting on chairs and sofas, rather than due to some hereditary physiological quality. The more I squat and the more I get used to squatting, the more comfortable it becomes. When I started powerlifting, I struggled to hit depth, but now I do go almost ATG on every rep without any discomfort in my joints. I really don't think there's any bone preventing you from squatting to depth. I believe it's almost always an issue of the condition of your muscular and connective tissue.
- iopq 13y agohere's an explanation: http://imgur.com/3ZjRtsk http://imgur.com/3ZjRtsk
- nostromo 13y agoDon't most of our fellow primates spend most of their time squatting? Maybe they're on to something? http://i.imgur.com/leDTqgl.jpg http://i.imgur.com/leDTqgl.jpg http://i.imgur.com/3f8c0PK.jpg http://i.imgur.com/3f8c0PK.jpg http://i.imgur.com/DBXxFvo.jpg http://i.imgur.com/DBXxFvo.jpg
- rwhitman 13y agoIts pretty much how 'sitting' worked before the advent & ubiquity of chairs
- Tomis02 13y agoIf I stay in a squat position within a couple of minutes my legs become really tensed up and it feels as if my I'm cutting my blood flow; squatting for even 5 minutes is not feasible for me, let alone 8 hours, and I don't believe it to be a matter of training. I think we are a long way from our fellow primates.
- shawnz 13y agoIn a squatting position, your feet should be flat on the ground (both heels and toes) and your upper legs should be touching your lower legs. Are you sure that your form is correct?
- vidarh 13y agoYou may not believe it is a matter of training, but your experience is fairly normal for someone who lacks the required flexibility from years of not squatting much.. As long as your form is good, squatting more will quickly rectify that.
- axefrog 13y agoYou will note of course that their legs are significantly different to ours. They're much shorter, they're less optimally-shaped for full upright standing (when do you ever see monkeys, apes, gorillas, etc standing tall like a human?), and their feet are differently-shaped. I think the comparison is flawed.
- 13y ago
- cko 13y agoBaseball catchers spend a lot of time in a squatting position. I was always told that it really messes up their knees.
- kyllo 13y agoBecause they squat with their weight on their toes and their heels off the ground.