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(healthcare costs being the biggest reason for personal bankruptcy) This is interesting. Is this true? I apologize if it sounded like I was complaining. I o

(healthcare costs being the biggest reason for personal bankruptcy) This is interesting. Is this true? I apologize if it sounded like I was complaining. I only meant I chose this life. How is it reasonable for me to choose this, and then force other people to pay for me? The other alternative is that I should feel like a shitty human for choosing not to maximize my earning potential and getting myself into this position in the first place. But part of having freedom of choice is the freedom to choose poorly. It's my own life, a life I'm not burdening others with. If I break my arm, can't afford to pay for it, and then become bankrupt as a result, then I have suffered a personal penalty which society will remember and will punish me for. And while I may have temporarily burdened others by not being able to pay for my emergency care, I've still been penalized as a result, which seems quite fair. Whereas taking a handout to cover the same expense feels like I got something for nothing. I admit that there are some good arguments in this thread, though, so perhaps I should reevaluate my moral perspectives. But it's extremely difficult for me to become comfortable with the idea of encroaching on other people's lives by force.

dangerlibrary 13y ago
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bankruptcy_in_the_United_States#Personal_bankruptcy http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bankruptcy_in_the_United_States... Relevant bit: "Although the individual causes of bankruptcy are complex and multifaceted, the majority of personal bankruptcies involve substantial medical bills"
rtpg 13y ago
http://www.forbes.com/2010/03/25/why-people-go-bankrupt-personal-finance-bankruptcy.html http://www.forbes.com/2010/03/25/why-people-go-bankrupt-pers... Here's a citation on the bankruptcy statistic. Its corroborated by many other sources (and many other studies). No matter what your intentions on the topic, if you end up in the emergency room for a preventable condition (which will lead to more treatment), you will end up costing everybody much more than simply taking the vouchers... take that fact as you will, but statistically speaking it's very likely you'll end up "costing" society more by not participating in the healthcare system.
Forplax 13y ago
> I apologize if it sounded like I was complaining. I only meant I chose this life. That's nice, but earlier you did say: > I don't appreciate the government intruding on my private life, forcing me to buy a product for at least $200/mo, a $200/mo I literally can't afford. (...) People simply have no money for $200/mo of extra costs. Which seems rather straightforward. You want to be angry at the government for enacting the ACA, for "forcing" this $200/mo charge on not only yourself but also the "many others" in your same position. You're quite upset at this mandate that you and those many apparently can't afford. Backpedaling only after someone points out the obvious (vouchers, tax credits, etc) doesn't change your original message.
rdtsc 13y ago
> It's my own life, a life I'm not burdening others with. You are invited to drop your American citizenship and live on an island. Otherwise you don't really get your life and not be affected or influenced by others. That is a silly idea born out of fairy tales for kids and teenagers. You are a part of a society. The moment you step out you are on a public street that someone paid for. On a private side-walk that someone else owns. You ride in a public transportation system that someone else has paid for. You are also driving a car because someone has granted you a license after you passed a test. Like it or not you are also protected from random other countries coming in and taking your stuff away by having a very very large military force. If your house catches on fire people will come in a red car with sirens on it and drag your ass our of the building and save your life. If someone assaulted you, you can sue them in a court of law and ask the judge to rule in your favor and force the other party to pay you some money. If you have a family and your break your arm you know cannot earn money for them. It is not just you suffering in silence, now your children, wife, other dependents are now starving. Same happens if you happen to take up heroin and start stealing and not going to work. It is not just your doing whatever you like in a hypothetical bubble. You now your family is starving. You just going about doing your own thing have caused quite a bit of a mess.

dangerlibrary 13y ago

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bankruptcy_in_the_United_States#Personal_bankruptcy http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bankruptcy_in_the_United_States... Relevant bit: "Although the individual causes of bankruptcy are complex and multifaceted, the majority of personal bankruptcies involve substantial medical bills"

rtpg 13y ago

http://www.forbes.com/2010/03/25/why-people-go-bankrupt-personal-finance-bankruptcy.html http://www.forbes.com/2010/03/25/why-people-go-bankrupt-pers... Here's a citation on the bankruptcy statistic. Its corroborated by many other sources (and many other studies). No matter what your intentions on the topic, if you end up in the emergency room for a preventable condition (which will lead to more treatment), you will end up costing everybody much more than simply taking the vouchers... take that fact as you will, but statistically speaking it's very likely you'll end up "costing" society more by not participating in the healthcare system.

Forplax 13y ago

> I apologize if it sounded like I was complaining. I only meant I chose this life. That's nice, but earlier you did say: > I don't appreciate the government intruding on my private life, forcing me to buy a product for at least $200/mo, a $200/mo I literally can't afford. (...) People simply have no money for $200/mo of extra costs. Which seems rather straightforward. You want to be angry at the government for enacting the ACA, for "forcing" this $200/mo charge on not only yourself but also the "many others" in your same position. You're quite upset at this mandate that you and those many apparently can't afford. Backpedaling only after someone points out the obvious (vouchers, tax credits, etc) doesn't change your original message.

rdtsc 13y ago

> It's my own life, a life I'm not burdening others with. You are invited to drop your American citizenship and live on an island. Otherwise you don't really get your life and not be affected or influenced by others. That is a silly idea born out of fairy tales for kids and teenagers. You are a part of a society. The moment you step out you are on a public street that someone paid for. On a private side-walk that someone else owns. You ride in a public transportation system that someone else has paid for. You are also driving a car because someone has granted you a license after you passed a test. Like it or not you are also protected from random other countries coming in and taking your stuff away by having a very very large military force. If your house catches on fire people will come in a red car with sirens on it and drag your ass our of the building and save your life. If someone assaulted you, you can sue them in a court of law and ask the judge to rule in your favor and force the other party to pay you some money. If you have a family and your break your arm you know cannot earn money for them. It is not just you suffering in silence, now your children, wife, other dependents are now starving. Same happens if you happen to take up heroin and start stealing and not going to work. It is not just your doing whatever you like in a hypothetical bubble. You now your family is starving. You just going about doing your own thing have caused quite a bit of a mess.