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I don't think you have understood what jwr is talking about. The situation is this: You have some software you wish to distribute in binary form (with source

I don't think you have understood what jwr is talking about. The situation is this: You have some software you wish to distribute in binary form (with source available). You also have a patent licence that allows you (and only you) to distribute software covered by that patent. If the software is BSD licensed there is no problem. The licence allows you to distribute the software, and so does your patent licence. Other people who receive the software from you will need to get a patent licence if they want to distribute it, but that is their problem. The BSD licence says nothing about your responsibility to ensure that recipients can also distribute the software - only that you have to convey the copyright notice and the text of the licence. The bit at the start of the BSD licences saying that redistribution is permitted etc is not a condition of redistribution. The conditions are the 2 or 3 numbered conditions. If the software is GPL licensed as soon as you try to distribute the software to somebody who doesn't have the same distribution patent licence as you then the original GPL licence becomes invalid and you can no longer distribute the software because you have violated clause 7 since the recipients of your software are not able to redistribute it. Now I'm not a lawyer and I don't even live in the USA, so I can't talk about the validity of the restrictions the GPL tries to apply here, but that is the situation we are talking about.

belorn 13y ago
Yes, a BSD licensed work can be used in a proprietary work, while GPL do not. Anyone is free to do a proprietary work and combine that with BSD. You can even put Microsoft's Shared Source license on it and provide source. Providing source does not mean that you got a permission to distribute (Ms-SS allow only non-commercial distribution, which would had to be permitted by the patent holder if used). What you can not do is put BSD on the whole work, as that would conflict with the patent license. The BSD is a license that grant recipients full permission to distribute, which in this scenario the patent owner to do allow (ie, its a condition/restriction that the developer is under). And yes, BSD and GPL is different. One is permissive, and one is copy left.
- anon1385 13y ago
  Firstly, proprietary or not has absolutely nothing to do with this issue. The example I gave above was for fully open source software. The issue is that the GPL requires all the recipients of GPL software you distribute to also have the rights to distribute the software. Patent licences conflict with that. Secondly, you are not allowed to re-licence code that you do not own the copyright to (I guess a licence like WTFPL would permit it as well). Your example of taking BSD source and removing the BSD licence to replace it with a Shared Source licence is not something that is permitted. The text of the BSD licence is very clear on that point. I don't know why GNU fans continue to be confused about this. The BSD parts of a combined work will remain BSD licensed and the recipient of that source is fully able to utilise those BSD sections of the source code in ways the BSD licence allows. Putting a more restrictive licence on the combined work does not change that. >What you can not do is put BSD on the whole work, as that would conflict with the patent license. The BSD is a license that grant recipients full permission to distribute Again, it sounds like you are pretty confused about the issues here. The BSD licence merely covers copyright concerns. You do not need to provide a patent licence if you release code under a BSD style licence. The licence says that the copyright holder grants the recipient permission to copy, modify and redistribute the code. Any other obligations the recipient might have, such as patents, don't affect the copyright holders ability to grant that permission. I've said this several times now and I'm not sure how much clearer I can make it. Yes there is a conflict for the recipient in the sense that they may only have the copyright licence to redistribute a binary, not the patent licence. But that is an issue for the recipient and does not affect the author's right to licence their work under a BSD style licence. For somebody going around accusing other of spreading FUD it certainly seems like you have a very weak grasp of the issues here.
  - belorn 13y ago
    You a very confused about the whole thing (maybe a trait of BSD fanaticism?), so let me put it in terms you might understand. If you give me software, and tell me that I have full permission to distribute it, I might do so. If the day after you try to sue me for distributing your work, I will go to a judge and say: "judge, anon1385 told me that I had full permission to distribute the work, and here is the documentation that proves it." In the case that its the patent holder that sue me, I will still say the exact same thing to the judge. At that point, the patent holder will simply say that you did not have permission to grant such permission. Its not a complicated concept. If you have a contract with someone, you got to follow the contract. If the contract do not allow you to give free permission for distribution, you are not allowed to give free permission for distribution. Surely, you can understand that?

belorn 13y ago

Yes, a BSD licensed work can be used in a proprietary work, while GPL do not. Anyone is free to do a proprietary work and combine that with BSD. You can even put Microsoft's Shared Source license on it and provide source. Providing source does not mean that you got a permission to distribute (Ms-SS allow only non-commercial distribution, which would had to be permitted by the patent holder if used). What you can not do is put BSD on the whole work, as that would conflict with the patent license. The BSD is a license that grant recipients full permission to distribute, which in this scenario the patent owner to do allow (ie, its a condition/restriction that the developer is under). And yes, BSD and GPL is different. One is permissive, and one is copy left.

anon1385 13y ago
Firstly, proprietary or not has absolutely nothing to do with this issue. The example I gave above was for fully open source software. The issue is that the GPL requires all the recipients of GPL software you distribute to also have the rights to distribute the software. Patent licences conflict with that. Secondly, you are not allowed to re-licence code that you do not own the copyright to (I guess a licence like WTFPL would permit it as well). Your example of taking BSD source and removing the BSD licence to replace it with a Shared Source licence is not something that is permitted. The text of the BSD licence is very clear on that point. I don't know why GNU fans continue to be confused about this. The BSD parts of a combined work will remain BSD licensed and the recipient of that source is fully able to utilise those BSD sections of the source code in ways the BSD licence allows. Putting a more restrictive licence on the combined work does not change that. >What you can not do is put BSD on the whole work, as that would conflict with the patent license. The BSD is a license that grant recipients full permission to distribute Again, it sounds like you are pretty confused about the issues here. The BSD licence merely covers copyright concerns. You do not need to provide a patent licence if you release code under a BSD style licence. The licence says that the copyright holder grants the recipient permission to copy, modify and redistribute the code. Any other obligations the recipient might have, such as patents, don't affect the copyright holders ability to grant that permission. I've said this several times now and I'm not sure how much clearer I can make it. Yes there is a conflict for the recipient in the sense that they may only have the copyright licence to redistribute a binary, not the patent licence. But that is an issue for the recipient and does not affect the author's right to licence their work under a BSD style licence. For somebody going around accusing other of spreading FUD it certainly seems like you have a very weak grasp of the issues here.
- belorn 13y ago
  You a very confused about the whole thing (maybe a trait of BSD fanaticism?), so let me put it in terms you might understand. If you give me software, and tell me that I have full permission to distribute it, I might do so. If the day after you try to sue me for distributing your work, I will go to a judge and say: "judge, anon1385 told me that I had full permission to distribute the work, and here is the documentation that proves it." In the case that its the patent holder that sue me, I will still say the exact same thing to the judge. At that point, the patent holder will simply say that you did not have permission to grant such permission. Its not a complicated concept. If you have a contract with someone, you got to follow the contract. If the contract do not allow you to give free permission for distribution, you are not allowed to give free permission for distribution. Surely, you can understand that?