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Climbing Everest has become more and more ridiculous year after year. What was once a frontier pushing expedition has turned into a sport for rich idiots who ar

by exDM69 13y ago

Climbing Everest has become more and more ridiculous year after year. What was once a frontier pushing expedition has turned into a sport for rich idiots who are practically being dragged up and down the mountain by their sherpas and expedition leaders. There may be an occasional experienced climber but mostly the mountain is filled with rich tourists who have hardly any climbing skills. This is well portrayed in the Discovery documentary Everest, which shows a group of people attempting to get to the summit. The mountain is so full of people that are queues of people waiting in line while inexperienced climbers ahead move slowly through the bottle necks (narrow ledges and ladders, etc). The documentary also portrays the death of climber David Sharp [1] who was left to die up in the mountain. In the documentary, it is shown that he was found during descent in a very bad condition. There is some controversy if this is true and whether he was actually found on the ascent instead. If he was found during the descent, leaving him might be considered acceptable since the party who found him would have been exhausted, low on oxygen and the daylight fading fast. But if the situation is (as some have suggested, and the Wikipedia article says) that he was actually found on ascent and left to die while going for the summit instead, it is very morally questionable thing to do. Going to the summit, which is essentially only a tourist attraction at this point, instead of attempting to save a man's life is something that I might never comprehend. Even if the chances of saving that man were slim, not attempting the rescue is questionable. [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Sharp_(mountaineer) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Sharp_(mountaineer)

chrisBob 13y ago
The only point you miss is that the dead bodies are part of the attraction for the rich idiots. Walking past dead or dying people is something you don't get to do in the berbs too often, and not many of your friends have done that.
- thinkpad20 13y ago
  Even being cynical, it's hard to imagine someone listing "getting to walk past dead people" as a reason for climbing Mount Everest.
freerobby 13y ago
There is definitely a bit of "rich idiot" syndrome on Everest (a syndrome which is not helped by needing over $50,000 just to get on the mountain), but let me assure you that they are in excellent physical shape. I don't care how many Sherpas you bring, how many ropes are preset for you; trekking to that altitude carrying nothing but your clothes and an ice axe is extremely difficult. And of course there are still expeditions who go to Everest and climb unassisted, without Sherpas, set up their own ropes, etc. Everest, for existential reasons, will always appeal to climbing enthusiasts regardless of its commercialization. But even for the ignorant non-enthusiasts who probably shouldn't be there and are less than self-sufficient in getting up, it is a monumental feat. As far as the dangers go, keep in mind that many of the lives claimed by Everest were not "rich idiots." Rob Hall was an experienced guide known for excellent judgment until he perished in the 1996 disaster. Experience helps a lot but there are always things left to chance, always decision points with ambiguous outcomes that can only be resolved in hindsight. I won't weigh in on the morality of leaving stranded climbers on the mountain other than to provide a little bit of context: climbers know going in that rescue above high camp borders on impossibility. Any responsible outfitter sets an expectation that beyond your climbing partners, you are on your own. There are many climbers who will help others at great personal expense (see: 1996 storm where many gave up their summit attempts to do so). But you get one shot at the summit, and most climbers go in with an awareness that unless their rescue seems surprisingly achievable, they will be passed over by other climbers, either heading towards or returning from the summit. Again, not weighing in on the ethics of that; just trying to provide context for it.
pavelrub 13y ago
I think you are making several incorrect and unfair generalizations. Calling those climbers "rich idiots" is unnecessary, and hugely inaccurate. Nearly all guided Everest expeditions require previous high-peak mountaineering experience to join the expedition, in places such as Aconcagua and Denali [1][2][3]. Technical familiarity with crampons, ice-axe, etc' is a must, and a high level of fitness is required. People who join those expeditions are not "rich idiots" who think they are going on a cruise. They are amateur climbers with money, who are interested in broadening their climbing experience and achieving their personal goals. Guiding companies provide a relatively safe opportunity for those climbers to achieve this, as this is something they cannot do by themselves. I also wouldn't be so quick to pass moral judgments on things that happen 8000+ meters above sea level, in conditions of extreme fatigue, after several weeks of hiking/climbing. What you think you would do while sitting on a chair in front of your computer is not necessarily what you would've done were you actually there. I recommend reading something like Into thin Air [4] to get a better perspective on what happens on those climbs. [1] http://www.alpineascents.com/everest.asp http://www.alpineascents.com/everest.asp [2] http://www.rmiguides.com/himalaya/everest/ http://www.rmiguides.com/himalaya/everest/ [3] http://www.adventureconsultants.com/adventure/FAQEverest/ http://www.adventureconsultants.com/adventure/FAQEverest/ [4] http://www.amazon.com/Into-Thin-Air-Personal-Disaster/dp/0385494785 http://www.amazon.com/Into-Thin-Air-Personal-Disaster/dp/038...
- exDM69 13y ago
  > I think you are making several incorrect and unfair generalizations. > Calling those climbers "rich idiots" is unnecessary, and hugely inaccurate. Nearly all guided Everest expeditions require previous high-peak mountaineering experience to join the expedition, in places such as Aconcagua and Denali [1][2][3]. Technical familiarity with crampons, ice-axe, etc' is a must, and a high level of fitness is required. I agree that it's a bit of an exaggeration and most expedition organizers are responsible and take preparations seriously and require their participants to be in good health and fine physical fitness. And then there are the organizers that aren't. In the Discovery documentary, there was one particular group of Chinese climbers who were practically pulled up the hill with ropes by their sherpas. Even the group who were followed in that documentary, from an organizer with a good reputation, led by a well known mountaineer had some members whose physical condition was a bit questionable. There was a motorcycle accident victim who could barely keep up with the climbers at the lower camps and in the end refused to turn back when told so by the expedition leader, putting himself and his sherpas at peril. But most of that group were fine climbers with proper preparations. I do understand that judgment doesn't quite work well at 8000+ meters, even with supplemental oxygen. I do not want to make moral judgments about the case above, but I do want to raise a discussion about the subject.

by exDM69 13y ago

chrisBob 13y ago

The only point you miss is that the dead bodies are part of the attraction for the rich idiots. Walking past dead or dying people is something you don't get to do in the berbs too often, and not many of your friends have done that.

thinkpad20 13y ago
Even being cynical, it's hard to imagine someone listing "getting to walk past dead people" as a reason for climbing Mount Everest.

freerobby 13y ago

There is definitely a bit of "rich idiot" syndrome on Everest (a syndrome which is not helped by needing over $50,000 just to get on the mountain), but let me assure you that they are in excellent physical shape. I don't care how many Sherpas you bring, how many ropes are preset for you; trekking to that altitude carrying nothing but your clothes and an ice axe is extremely difficult. And of course there are still expeditions who go to Everest and climb unassisted, without Sherpas, set up their own ropes, etc. Everest, for existential reasons, will always appeal to climbing enthusiasts regardless of its commercialization. But even for the ignorant non-enthusiasts who probably shouldn't be there and are less than self-sufficient in getting up, it is a monumental feat. As far as the dangers go, keep in mind that many of the lives claimed by Everest were not "rich idiots." Rob Hall was an experienced guide known for excellent judgment until he perished in the 1996 disaster. Experience helps a lot but there are always things left to chance, always decision points with ambiguous outcomes that can only be resolved in hindsight. I won't weigh in on the morality of leaving stranded climbers on the mountain other than to provide a little bit of context: climbers know going in that rescue above high camp borders on impossibility. Any responsible outfitter sets an expectation that beyond your climbing partners, you are on your own. There are many climbers who will help others at great personal expense (see: 1996 storm where many gave up their summit attempts to do so). But you get one shot at the summit, and most climbers go in with an awareness that unless their rescue seems surprisingly achievable, they will be passed over by other climbers, either heading towards or returning from the summit. Again, not weighing in on the ethics of that; just trying to provide context for it.

pavelrub 13y ago

I think you are making several incorrect and unfair generalizations. Calling those climbers "rich idiots" is unnecessary, and hugely inaccurate. Nearly all guided Everest expeditions require previous high-peak mountaineering experience to join the expedition, in places such as Aconcagua and Denali [1][2][3]. Technical familiarity with crampons, ice-axe, etc' is a must, and a high level of fitness is required. People who join those expeditions are not "rich idiots" who think they are going on a cruise. They are amateur climbers with money, who are interested in broadening their climbing experience and achieving their personal goals. Guiding companies provide a relatively safe opportunity for those climbers to achieve this, as this is something they cannot do by themselves. I also wouldn't be so quick to pass moral judgments on things that happen 8000+ meters above sea level, in conditions of extreme fatigue, after several weeks of hiking/climbing. What you think you would do while sitting on a chair in front of your computer is not necessarily what you would've done were you actually there. I recommend reading something like Into thin Air [4] to get a better perspective on what happens on those climbs. [1] http://www.alpineascents.com/everest.asp http://www.alpineascents.com/everest.asp [2] http://www.rmiguides.com/himalaya/everest/ http://www.rmiguides.com/himalaya/everest/ [3] http://www.adventureconsultants.com/adventure/FAQEverest/ http://www.adventureconsultants.com/adventure/FAQEverest/ [4] http://www.amazon.com/Into-Thin-Air-Personal-Disaster/dp/0385494785 http://www.amazon.com/Into-Thin-Air-Personal-Disaster/dp/038...

exDM69 13y ago
> I think you are making several incorrect and unfair generalizations. > Calling those climbers "rich idiots" is unnecessary, and hugely inaccurate. Nearly all guided Everest expeditions require previous high-peak mountaineering experience to join the expedition, in places such as Aconcagua and Denali [1][2][3]. Technical familiarity with crampons, ice-axe, etc' is a must, and a high level of fitness is required. I agree that it's a bit of an exaggeration and most expedition organizers are responsible and take preparations seriously and require their participants to be in good health and fine physical fitness. And then there are the organizers that aren't. In the Discovery documentary, there was one particular group of Chinese climbers who were practically pulled up the hill with ropes by their sherpas. Even the group who were followed in that documentary, from an organizer with a good reputation, led by a well known mountaineer had some members whose physical condition was a bit questionable. There was a motorcycle accident victim who could barely keep up with the climbers at the lower camps and in the end refused to turn back when told so by the expedition leader, putting himself and his sherpas at peril. But most of that group were fine climbers with proper preparations. I do understand that judgment doesn't quite work well at 8000+ meters, even with supplemental oxygen. I do not want to make moral judgments about the case above, but I do want to raise a discussion about the subject.