4 ms·

No One Wants Your Crappy Web App

24 points by csbartus 17y ago

mbenjaminsmith 17y ago
People with something valuable to say generally don't yell. It reminds me of that Mr Show where they were playing ad execs and almost gave their client a heart attack by insulting him and yelling. Now that we have your attention...
- devin 17y ago
  Yeah the guy is truly obnoxious. Too "slick" to be taken seriously.
csbartus 17y ago
And so your current users are: - hipsters - web celebs - real celebs - alpha geeks - wow fanboys instead of: - freedom fighters - kids & puppies - slum dogs - old people Sounds funny ... until you'll watch Mike Wesch's latest presentation at Democracy Forum about the users of the web2 (http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=709900 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=709900) I think this change of the user base is backing up ideas and trends like the freemium business model.
- davi 17y ago
  Good link, thanks. I think this change of the user base is backing up ideas and trends like the freemium business model. -- So what are you saying the link is between Wesch's talk and freemium?
  - csbartus 17y ago
    Wesch talks in the same way about the changing user base: the web became the home of usual people instead of the elite. They take the web differently from the old users: for them everything is for free and for fun that's why you can't really charge.
devin 17y ago
I am feeling extra cynical at the moment so I can't hold myself back: All of this talk about "follow your passion, the money will come" is starting to sound a little infomercial-ish. It's also a little ironic considering that this guy says in his talk that we should all go out and follow our passion. What if my passion is building an aggregator that aggregates aggregators? There's clearly more going on in the background than people are letting on. I know plenty of people who followed their passion and filed for bankruptcy. I know web 2.0 is over and we need a web 3.0 mantra, but please, let's avoid this crap about how the web is all about fluffy clouds and passion that deliver piles of money for attempting to save starving babies. A little perspective please.
- MicahWedemeyer 17y ago
  Very true. Follow your passion...and you'll love what you do. There's no guarantee of financial success or even financial subsistence. Sometimes you have to do things for money. The key is to find the right balance between pure passion and pure commercial interest. It exists, and working in that space is a great place to be.
  - devin 17y ago
    Well said!
deleted 17y ago
[deleted]
patio11 17y ago
Underserved demographics? Hmm. Well: Women. Old people. i.e. those above the age of 30 People who do not like using computers. People who are not Americans. People who do not read English. (You could make a VERY long list if you included underserved demographics which did not also have huge purchasing power, but in terms of business models, I'd rather be targeting 40 year old American women with graduate degrees and household income in the $80k+ region than illiterate folks in Africa whose most reliable web access is a shared cellphone.)
- deleted 17y ago
  [deleted]
omouse 17y ago
You can tell this is shit when you see a link to Umair Haque's work. The guy's a marketing twit who uses large words in a bid to mislead people into thinking he's saying something revolutionary. All talk, no walk and it's a surprise to see him linked to when this is all about "do better walking, not just crappy web app walking".
there 17y ago
and what uncrappy web apps has this guy made? according to his twitter page he has a company that is "a digital word of mouth agency", "a social technology builder", "a social media marketing practitioner", "an experimental marketing producer", "a content creation machine", and "an idea foundry" so he doesn't really make anything, he just markets what other people make?
- sophacles 17y ago
  I don't need to be a chef to know someone's cooking sucks. I don't need to a writer to know hack writing. Why does this guy need to be a programmer to know crappy webapps? Further why does his marketing mean that he can't have observed and lived the "do what you love and the rest will follow" message he presents?
  - jpwagner 17y ago
    You may not need to be a chef to know someone's cooking sucks, but you sure as hell better be a chef if you're going to lecture to a bunch of chefs about cooking.
    - sophacles 17y ago
      I call bs. Sure, the chef needs to go listen to other chefs about cooking, technique, ingredients, whatever. But I bet that same chef can go to non-chefs about things like book keeping, marketing, what customers want, etc. Further, plenty of restaurant owners, restaurant workers, restaurant enthusiasts and/or people who eat can totally get up in front of a chef and say: hey stop making crappy food no one wants it. Or even "this food that you are all making used to be trendy and clever, but now that everyone is doing it, its just sucky and boring. Here is something cool instead". Bringing the analogy back around, it is pretty arrogant for developers to think that the only person that can speak about the end product is another developer. Sure, I wouldn't listen to a marketer about what framework to use, but I sure would when it comes to declaring aggregators old-hat and sucky.
      - 17y ago
rabidsnail 17y ago
I have no idea what people who are not like me want. Maybe I could go and live in a favela or a township for five years and maybe then I would know, but I'm probably not going to do that. If I attempt to serve an imaginary favela-dweller I'll end up with a product that doesn't suit them. At least I know I can serve myself.

24 points by csbartus 17y ago

People with something valuable to say generally don't yell. It reminds me of that Mr Show where they were playing ad execs and almost gave their client a heart attack by insulting him and yelling. Now that we have your attention...

devin 17y ago
Yeah the guy is truly obnoxious. Too "slick" to be taken seriously.

csbartus 17y ago

And so your current users are: - hipsters - web celebs - real celebs - alpha geeks - wow fanboys instead of: - freedom fighters - kids & puppies - slum dogs - old people Sounds funny ... until you'll watch Mike Wesch's latest presentation at Democracy Forum about the users of the web2 (http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=709900 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=709900) I think this change of the user base is backing up ideas and trends like the freemium business model.

davi 17y ago
Good link, thanks. I think this change of the user base is backing up ideas and trends like the freemium business model. -- So what are you saying the link is between Wesch's talk and freemium?
- csbartus 17y ago
  Wesch talks in the same way about the changing user base: the web became the home of usual people instead of the elite. They take the web differently from the old users: for them everything is for free and for fun that's why you can't really charge.

devin 17y ago

I am feeling extra cynical at the moment so I can't hold myself back: All of this talk about "follow your passion, the money will come" is starting to sound a little infomercial-ish. It's also a little ironic considering that this guy says in his talk that we should all go out and follow our passion. What if my passion is building an aggregator that aggregates aggregators? There's clearly more going on in the background than people are letting on. I know plenty of people who followed their passion and filed for bankruptcy. I know web 2.0 is over and we need a web 3.0 mantra, but please, let's avoid this crap about how the web is all about fluffy clouds and passion that deliver piles of money for attempting to save starving babies. A little perspective please.

MicahWedemeyer 17y ago
Very true. Follow your passion...and you'll love what you do. There's no guarantee of financial success or even financial subsistence. Sometimes you have to do things for money. The key is to find the right balance between pure passion and pure commercial interest. It exists, and working in that space is a great place to be.
- devin 17y ago
  Well said!

deleted 17y ago

[deleted]

patio11 17y ago

Underserved demographics? Hmm. Well: Women. Old people. i.e. those above the age of 30 People who do not like using computers. People who are not Americans. People who do not read English. (You could make a VERY long list if you included underserved demographics which did not also have huge purchasing power, but in terms of business models, I'd rather be targeting 40 year old American women with graduate degrees and household income in the $80k+ region than illiterate folks in Africa whose most reliable web access is a shared cellphone.)

deleted 17y ago
[deleted]

omouse 17y ago

You can tell this is shit when you see a link to Umair Haque's work. The guy's a marketing twit who uses large words in a bid to mislead people into thinking he's saying something revolutionary. All talk, no walk and it's a surprise to see him linked to when this is all about "do better walking, not just crappy web app walking".

there 17y ago

and what uncrappy web apps has this guy made? according to his twitter page he has a company that is "a digital word of mouth agency", "a social technology builder", "a social media marketing practitioner", "an experimental marketing producer", "a content creation machine", and "an idea foundry" so he doesn't really make anything, he just markets what other people make?

sophacles 17y ago
I don't need to be a chef to know someone's cooking sucks. I don't need to a writer to know hack writing. Why does this guy need to be a programmer to know crappy webapps? Further why does his marketing mean that he can't have observed and lived the "do what you love and the rest will follow" message he presents?
- jpwagner 17y ago
  You may not need to be a chef to know someone's cooking sucks, but you sure as hell better be a chef if you're going to lecture to a bunch of chefs about cooking.
  - sophacles 17y ago
    I call bs. Sure, the chef needs to go listen to other chefs about cooking, technique, ingredients, whatever. But I bet that same chef can go to non-chefs about things like book keeping, marketing, what customers want, etc. Further, plenty of restaurant owners, restaurant workers, restaurant enthusiasts and/or people who eat can totally get up in front of a chef and say: hey stop making crappy food no one wants it. Or even "this food that you are all making used to be trendy and clever, but now that everyone is doing it, its just sucky and boring. Here is something cool instead". Bringing the analogy back around, it is pretty arrogant for developers to think that the only person that can speak about the end product is another developer. Sure, I wouldn't listen to a marketer about what framework to use, but I sure would when it comes to declaring aggregators old-hat and sucky.
    - 17y ago

rabidsnail 17y ago

I have no idea what people who are not like me want. Maybe I could go and live in a favela or a township for five years and maybe then I would know, but I'm probably not going to do that. If I attempt to serve an imaginary favela-dweller I'll end up with a product that doesn't suit them. At least I know I can serve myself.