6 ms·

Why doesn't the US pursue the blue-jeans approach do diplomacy any more? You know, give them blue-jeans, fast-food and rock'n roll, so they will become like us

Why doesn't the US pursue the blue-jeans approach do diplomacy any more? You know, give them blue-jeans, fast-food and rock'n roll, so they will become like us instead of hate us. I know this works, since it has been applied in my home country (Germany) to astonishing results. This incident als further highlights that we (speaking of Europeans now) need non-US based online services. Remember the last big Paypal scandal, when all online-retailers that sold Cuban rum had their accounts frozen? Yeah, won't be the last.

lazyjones 13y ago
> Why doesn't the US pursue the blue-jeans approach do diplomacy any more? Because good diplomacy won't help the military-industrial complex increase its revenue.
- pliny 13y ago
  Only if you or a customer of yours are going to bomb them, otherwise you're better off being friends and selling them bombs.
  - lazyjones 13y ago
    Ideally you'd do both at the same time (or one after the other). With good diplomacy, neither you, nor them, nor their enemies would buy more bombs.
benched 13y ago
Cultural conquests were always the most satisfying to me in Civilization.
- masklinn 13y ago
  And the very reason why I so dislike Civ V: in Civ IV, you could use culture to literally take over the world, as your cultural influence could slowly convert other players's territories and cities to you. And the culture bomb was a magnificent thing. In Civ V, at best they like you, and worst (and more commonly) your cultural achievements will just make them hate you even more.
  - thebooktocome 13y ago
    Partly fixed in BNW with Tourism/Ideology mechanics. Sadly unfixed by the ease with which one gets a diplomatic victory on anything less than Immortal.
justwanttotalk 13y ago
The majority of Iran already likes us. The 5% of religious extremists control the govt. and oppress the people. They are the only ones who dont like us.
- sentenza 13y ago
  Whoever controls the public discourse gains in the long run. What do you think Iran would look like today if local information policies hadn't been counterbalanced by the internet for the last ten years? I distinctly remember The Daily Show sending somebody to Teheran to ask people in the street if they new the show and they found quite a bunch who said yes! So IMO you are right, but only as long as Iran is well-integrated in the internet. Guess which 5% of Iran realized this recently.
- lazyjones 13y ago
  Do you have a credible source for this? Because nowdays, even Germans consider the US a bigger threat than Iran.
  - Moru 13y ago
    Do you have a credible source for this?
    - oddx 13y ago
      Here [1], for germany [2], Table 6: Q8. Which country do you think is the greatest threat to peace in the world today? - United States 17% - Iran 16% 1. http://www.wingia.com/en/services/about_the_end_of_year_survey/global_results/7/33/ http://www.wingia.com/en/services/about_the_end_of_year_surv... 2. http://www.wingia.com/web/files/news/97/file/97.pdf http://www.wingia.com/web/files/news/97/file/97.pdf
      - vacri 13y ago
        Give some context - Iran shares half of its borders with politically unstable countries, one of which has nuclear weapons. All of Germany's neighbours are extremely stable; they have better scope to look further afield for threats.
x0054 13y ago
Recently I made an argument to a buddy of mine that US should continue the drone program, but instead of bombs, drop on people chocolate bars in a shape of the American flag (weather permitting, in hotter climates we might have to opt for other patriotically shaped treats). It's cheeper, and probably far more effective at making people like (or at least hate less) the United States. This article is yet another example of idiotic foreign policy US has been pursuing lately.
- primitivesuave 13y ago
  Or we could drop little stuffed drone dolls, so kids could grow up with their very own pet drone and not be scared by them. Pretty soon the kids will have nothing but endearing things to say about their friends in the sky. "My pet drone watches over me as I sleep..."
  - draugadrotten 13y ago
    >...kids could grow up with their very own pet drone and not be scared by them. Pretty soon the kids will have nothing but endearing things to say about their friends in the sky. Hey, they are not "stuffed" but apart from that this idea sounds pretty much like what they are doing right now in the US: Military drones are made as toys for children. http://www.amazon.com/Fresh-Metal-Tailwinds-Predator-Drone/dp/B001LGFHHI/?ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1361056154&sr=8-1&keywords=Maisto+International+predator+model&&tag=gizmodoamzn-20&ascsubtag=[referrer|www.google.se[type|link[postId|5984797[asin|B001LGFHHI[authorId|5722017953025243831 http://www.amazon.com/Fresh-Metal-Tailwinds-Predator-Drone/d...
    - michaelt 13y ago
      To be fair, toys modelled on real military equipment, like tin soldiers and airfix models, have been around for at least a hundred years.
      - thaumasiotes 13y ago
        Much as the dolls that little girls play with predate the emergence of humanity (girl chimpanzees care for sticks as if they were babies), it seems safe to say that toys based on weapons have been around for tens of thousands of years at least.
barry-cotter 13y ago
I imagine if the US invaded Cuba, Syria, Iran and Cuba, wrote them new constitutions, had massive buy in from local supporters/collaborators, had large military bases in them almost 60 years later and had almost total access to the communications of all members of government and ministries that would work even better than blue jeans diplomacy.
- barrkel 13y ago
  had massive buy in from local supporters/collaborators Government control by foreign invaders is not conducive to massive buy-in from local supporters before "blue jeans diplomacy" has already worked. It's complete ahistorical fantasy to think otherwise.
  - barry-cotter 13y ago
    I don't know man, it worked pretty well for the Romans and everywhere they speak Arabic now they didn't in the 600s A.D. Also, Communist Romania. The first five-ishyears of that were pretty relaxed because there were, for practical purposes, no Romanian Communists to be put in power;they needed to make some first. And Romania only fell because the Soviets did.
- sentenza 13y ago
  You are missing the point (though I share your criticism of things as they are). No country in recent history has been so thorroughly defeated both in military terms and in ideology as Germany. It would have been _incredibly_ easy to dole out severe punishment on Germany after WW2 (let's say, massive economic reparations, a ban on heavy industry, exclusion from public office/certain professions for any past member of the NSDAP). Some things like that were on the table. Google Morgenthau plan. Had that happened, I can assure you that either, we'd have had another big war within Europe by now, or (West-)Germany would have drifted towards the Soviet Union, or both. Instead there was economic upswing and americanization. We became rich, we became fat, and we became disinterested in German nationalism and revenge (for injustices real and even moreso imagined). That is the success story.
- arethuza 13y ago
dualogy 13y ago
German citizen here.. we kinda "got lucky" the whole cold war thing started right out of the ashes after 45, otherwise Germany would probably have remained a barren wasteland or become merely a major agricultural Allied asset. Instead with the cold war emerging, both sides pushed many resources into propping up their respective "showcase" of their respective system. The official narrative was also along the lines of "tough vengeance didn't help us the last time (WW1) with regards to Germany so let's try something different and more fundamental this time", doubtlessly a common and widespread belief at the time too. Blue jeans and chewing gum only entered the picture after the war, after all, not during ;)
aaronem 13y ago
> [...] it has been applied in my home country (Germany) to astonishing results. Well, sure. Blue jeans, fast food, rock 'n roll, and two-thousand-pound bombs.

lazyjones 13y ago

> Why doesn't the US pursue the blue-jeans approach do diplomacy any more? Because good diplomacy won't help the military-industrial complex increase its revenue.

pliny 13y ago
Only if you or a customer of yours are going to bomb them, otherwise you're better off being friends and selling them bombs.
- lazyjones 13y ago
  Ideally you'd do both at the same time (or one after the other). With good diplomacy, neither you, nor them, nor their enemies would buy more bombs.

benched 13y ago

Cultural conquests were always the most satisfying to me in Civilization.

masklinn 13y ago
And the very reason why I so dislike Civ V: in Civ IV, you could use culture to literally take over the world, as your cultural influence could slowly convert other players's territories and cities to you. And the culture bomb was a magnificent thing. In Civ V, at best they like you, and worst (and more commonly) your cultural achievements will just make them hate you even more.
- thebooktocome 13y ago
  Partly fixed in BNW with Tourism/Ideology mechanics. Sadly unfixed by the ease with which one gets a diplomatic victory on anything less than Immortal.

justwanttotalk 13y ago

The majority of Iran already likes us. The 5% of religious extremists control the govt. and oppress the people. They are the only ones who dont like us.

sentenza 13y ago
Whoever controls the public discourse gains in the long run. What do you think Iran would look like today if local information policies hadn't been counterbalanced by the internet for the last ten years? I distinctly remember The Daily Show sending somebody to Teheran to ask people in the street if they new the show and they found quite a bunch who said yes! So IMO you are right, but only as long as Iran is well-integrated in the internet. Guess which 5% of Iran realized this recently.
lazyjones 13y ago
Do you have a credible source for this? Because nowdays, even Germans consider the US a bigger threat than Iran.
- Moru 13y ago
  Do you have a credible source for this?
  - oddx 13y ago
    Here [1], for germany [2], Table 6: Q8. Which country do you think is the greatest threat to peace in the world today? - United States 17% - Iran 16% 1. http://www.wingia.com/en/services/about_the_end_of_year_survey/global_results/7/33/ http://www.wingia.com/en/services/about_the_end_of_year_surv... 2. http://www.wingia.com/web/files/news/97/file/97.pdf http://www.wingia.com/web/files/news/97/file/97.pdf
    - vacri 13y ago
      Give some context - Iran shares half of its borders with politically unstable countries, one of which has nuclear weapons. All of Germany's neighbours are extremely stable; they have better scope to look further afield for threats.

x0054 13y ago

Recently I made an argument to a buddy of mine that US should continue the drone program, but instead of bombs, drop on people chocolate bars in a shape of the American flag (weather permitting, in hotter climates we might have to opt for other patriotically shaped treats). It's cheeper, and probably far more effective at making people like (or at least hate less) the United States. This article is yet another example of idiotic foreign policy US has been pursuing lately.

primitivesuave 13y ago
Or we could drop little stuffed drone dolls, so kids could grow up with their very own pet drone and not be scared by them. Pretty soon the kids will have nothing but endearing things to say about their friends in the sky. "My pet drone watches over me as I sleep..."
- draugadrotten 13y ago
  >...kids could grow up with their very own pet drone and not be scared by them. Pretty soon the kids will have nothing but endearing things to say about their friends in the sky. Hey, they are not "stuffed" but apart from that this idea sounds pretty much like what they are doing right now in the US: Military drones are made as toys for children. http://www.amazon.com/Fresh-Metal-Tailwinds-Predator-Drone/dp/B001LGFHHI/?ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1361056154&sr=8-1&keywords=Maisto+International+predator+model&&tag=gizmodoamzn-20&ascsubtag=[referrer|www.google.se[type|link[postId|5984797[asin|B001LGFHHI[authorId|5722017953025243831 http://www.amazon.com/Fresh-Metal-Tailwinds-Predator-Drone/d...
  - michaelt 13y ago
    To be fair, toys modelled on real military equipment, like tin soldiers and airfix models, have been around for at least a hundred years.
    - thaumasiotes 13y ago
      Much as the dolls that little girls play with predate the emergence of humanity (girl chimpanzees care for sticks as if they were babies), it seems safe to say that toys based on weapons have been around for tens of thousands of years at least.

barry-cotter 13y ago

I imagine if the US invaded Cuba, Syria, Iran and Cuba, wrote them new constitutions, had massive buy in from local supporters/collaborators, had large military bases in them almost 60 years later and had almost total access to the communications of all members of government and ministries that would work even better than blue jeans diplomacy.

barrkel 13y ago
had massive buy in from local supporters/collaborators Government control by foreign invaders is not conducive to massive buy-in from local supporters before "blue jeans diplomacy" has already worked. It's complete ahistorical fantasy to think otherwise.
- barry-cotter 13y ago
  I don't know man, it worked pretty well for the Romans and everywhere they speak Arabic now they didn't in the 600s A.D. Also, Communist Romania. The first five-ishyears of that were pretty relaxed because there were, for practical purposes, no Romanian Communists to be put in power;they needed to make some first. And Romania only fell because the Soviets did.
sentenza 13y ago
You are missing the point (though I share your criticism of things as they are). No country in recent history has been so thorroughly defeated both in military terms and in ideology as Germany. It would have been _incredibly_ easy to dole out severe punishment on Germany after WW2 (let's say, massive economic reparations, a ban on heavy industry, exclusion from public office/certain professions for any past member of the NSDAP). Some things like that were on the table. Google Morgenthau plan. Had that happened, I can assure you that either, we'd have had another big war within Europe by now, or (West-)Germany would have drifted towards the Soviet Union, or both. Instead there was economic upswing and americanization. We became rich, we became fat, and we became disinterested in German nationalism and revenge (for injustices real and even moreso imagined). That is the success story.
arethuza 13y ago

dualogy 13y ago

German citizen here.. we kinda "got lucky" the whole cold war thing started right out of the ashes after 45, otherwise Germany would probably have remained a barren wasteland or become merely a major agricultural Allied asset. Instead with the cold war emerging, both sides pushed many resources into propping up their respective "showcase" of their respective system. The official narrative was also along the lines of "tough vengeance didn't help us the last time (WW1) with regards to Germany so let's try something different and more fundamental this time", doubtlessly a common and widespread belief at the time too. Blue jeans and chewing gum only entered the picture after the war, after all, not during ;)

aaronem 13y ago

> [...] it has been applied in my home country (Germany) to astonishing results. Well, sure. Blue jeans, fast food, rock 'n roll, and two-thousand-pound bombs.