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Call me curmudgeonly, why replace a protocol that works...instead roll up a library to provide the functionality... Those things called standards generally fin

Call me curmudgeonly, why replace a protocol that works...instead roll up a library to provide the functionality... Those things called standards generally find their way through bodies like the IETF. Maybe I missed it while reading on my phone, but I don't see this submitted as an IETF draft...

peterkelly 13y ago
Because JSON is cool!
alfiejohn_ 13y ago
Because AFAIR, you need to point to two working implementations of a spec before turning it into an RFC.
- teddyh 13y ago
  Well, no, first you discuss the idea in a Working Group mailing list, which is like HN – you get lots of great negative feedback. When you have fixed all your initial bugs, you write a draft RFC. With which implementers can create independent implementations. If there are not anyone willing to do this, this is a sign that the idea is not wanted enough, i.e. not widely useful enough to warrant an RFC in the first place. The implementers will find bugs. You fix those, and discuss some more. Eventually, you, the mailing list and the implementers will be happy with the standard, at which point you move to have the RFC published as an official RFC. Anyhow, this is all for a “Standard track” RFC. An “Informational” or “Experimental” RFC has no such requirement, and can basically be submitted by anyone for anything.
robn_fastmail 13y ago
IMAP works, but not particularly well for a lot of modern tasks. Its highly stateful, requires a fair amount of knowledge on the part of the client to make things work correctly, and too many extensions are optional, requiring a lot of fallbacks for when functions are missing. Implementing a client or a server well is difficult. JMAP isn't the be-all and end-all of mail protocols, but it goes some way to address some of the problems in IMAP. We're using it in production right now at FastMail so we already know its pretty good as a low-latency, stateless protocol. As for the IETF (and standards bodies in general), they're useful in their place, but they're also a slow-moving beast and thev're published a great many "standards" that have either never been implemented or are just rubbish. But there's nobody forcing you to implement it. Its there, its documented, and we're encouraging others to get involved to make it work. If others get on board then we'll see improvements everywhere. If not, then FastMail will continue to use it and get the advantages that come from it.
deleted 13y ago
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vidarh 13y ago
Read the IMAP specs. If you still don't want to replace it, I can't help you. When I read it the first time, I wanted to hit people in the face.
kalleboo 13y ago
Because IMAP doesn't work.

peterkelly 13y ago

Because JSON is cool!

alfiejohn_ 13y ago

Because AFAIR, you need to point to two working implementations of a spec before turning it into an RFC.

teddyh 13y ago
Well, no, first you discuss the idea in a Working Group mailing list, which is like HN – you get lots of great negative feedback. When you have fixed all your initial bugs, you write a draft RFC. With which implementers can create independent implementations. If there are not anyone willing to do this, this is a sign that the idea is not wanted enough, i.e. not widely useful enough to warrant an RFC in the first place. The implementers will find bugs. You fix those, and discuss some more. Eventually, you, the mailing list and the implementers will be happy with the standard, at which point you move to have the RFC published as an official RFC. Anyhow, this is all for a “Standard track” RFC. An “Informational” or “Experimental” RFC has no such requirement, and can basically be submitted by anyone for anything.

robn_fastmail 13y ago

IMAP works, but not particularly well for a lot of modern tasks. Its highly stateful, requires a fair amount of knowledge on the part of the client to make things work correctly, and too many extensions are optional, requiring a lot of fallbacks for when functions are missing. Implementing a client or a server well is difficult. JMAP isn't the be-all and end-all of mail protocols, but it goes some way to address some of the problems in IMAP. We're using it in production right now at FastMail so we already know its pretty good as a low-latency, stateless protocol. As for the IETF (and standards bodies in general), they're useful in their place, but they're also a slow-moving beast and thev're published a great many "standards" that have either never been implemented or are just rubbish. But there's nobody forcing you to implement it. Its there, its documented, and we're encouraging others to get involved to make it work. If others get on board then we'll see improvements everywhere. If not, then FastMail will continue to use it and get the advantages that come from it.

deleted 13y ago

[deleted]

vidarh 13y ago

Read the IMAP specs. If you still don't want to replace it, I can't help you. When I read it the first time, I wanted to hit people in the face.

kalleboo 13y ago

Because IMAP doesn't work.