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>The US has lost 40% of its manufacturing jobs since 1980 (http://research.stlouisfed.org/fredgraph.png?g=rrN http://research.stlouisfed.org/fredgraph.png?g=rrN

>The US has lost 40% of its manufacturing jobs since 1980 (http://research.stlouisfed.org/fredgraph.png?g=rrN http://research.stlouisfed.org/fredgraph.png?g=rrN). Even still, there are 245,000 manufacturing jobs currently open. However, over 11 million Americans are still unemployed (http://research.stlouisfed.org/fredgraph.png?g=rrQ http://research.stlouisfed.org/fredgraph.png?g=rrQ). Of course there is only 250,000 jobs open, It's a declining industry. You don't see the Sears, Home Depot, Dell, or HP (to name a few) doing much hiring while they are doing layoffs (contracting) do you? This was partially my point (thanks for backing it up with sources). My other point was that even when these jobs exist, people don't fill them. If we had 5 million of these same jobs open, how many people (besides legal and illegal immigrants) would fill them. We have lost 7m+ manufacturing jobs and have 11m unemployed. That is a big percentage. It is estimated that innovation cost only 20-25% of those jobs. The reasons that I mentioned before cost us the rest. Also consider that US consumption of manufactured goods since 1990 has tripled. Even if Technology and innovation cost us 50% of manufacturing jobs, the rise in consumption should have more than compensated for it. Don't forget the other jobs that are lost when a factory town loses it's factory. The barber, the local tax guy, the corner market ETC. They all go out of business and the employees and owners have been going on unemployment, then welfare, then disability for years. For every two lost factory jobs, there is at least one axillary job lost. >Over 1 million illegal immigrants left the US in the aftermath of the financial crisis (http://www.nytimes.com/2008/07/31/us/31immig.html?partner=rs... http://www.nytimes.com/2008/07/31/us/31immig.html?partner=rs...) and the number hasn't markedly increased in the last 6 years (http://www.pewhispanic.org/files/2013/09/PH-unauthorized-imm... http://www.pewhispanic.org/files/2013/09/PH-unauthorized-imm...), yet we have persistently high unemployment and low labor-force participation in concert with baby boomers retiring. Why does the job market still have 8 million more unemployed than openings (http://research.stlouisfed.org/fredgraph.png?g=rrT http://research.stlouisfed.org/fredgraph.png?g=rrT)? I am not sure what point you are trying to make here. There are still an estimated 12 million illegals here. More than half arriving while the US was riding the dotcom and housing bubbles (They came here for jobs while the perceived wealth was plentiful and no citizen "needed" these jobs anymore) >There's no measure whatsoever that shows unemployment at 30%. The most inclusive rate (U6 - http://research.stlouisfed.org/fredgraph.png?g=rrS http://research.stlouisfed.org/fredgraph.png?g=rrS) shows us at about 13%. 30% is a bit of a stretch, I admit - but don't believe the Census Bureau cheaters. The numbers they give are all based on careful and changing criteria and technicalities. This sheds some light on what I am talking about. http://freedomoutpost.com/2013/11/real-unemployment-rate-30/ http://freedomoutpost.com/2013/11/real-unemployment-rate-30/ Now just imagine in govt size/jobs had not grown by 40%+ in the last decade. Unemployment would be way worse. Not sure how your post proves that my statements are ignorant and fairly abhorrent. You only go on to reinforce what I am saying.

mikeyouse 13y ago
Now just imagine in govt size/jobs had not grown by 40%+ in the last decade. Unemployment would be way worse. Ugh. Please do some basic research before spouting off this nonsense. Government employment grew by 1.5% in the last decade. - http://research.stlouisfed.org/fredgraph.png?g=rs4 http://research.stlouisfed.org/fredgraph.png?g=rs4 30% is a bit of a stretch, I admit - but don't believe the Census Bureau cheaters. So you'd rather trust a random site that confirms your biases? The only source for their 30% number is a poll by IBD/TIPP. The same firm that predicted John McCain would win the youth vote 74% - 22%. I'll leave that takedown up to Nate Silver: http://www.fivethirtyeight.com/2008/10/whats-wrong-with-this-picture-aka-nate.html http://www.fivethirtyeight.com/2008/10/whats-wrong-with-this... Of course there is only 250,000 jobs open, It's a declining industry. You don't see the Sears, Home Depot, Dell, or HP (to name a few) doing much hiring while they are doing layoffs (contracting) do you? This was partially my point (thanks for backing it up with sources). You literally said Americans were too lazy and entitled to fill all of the open manufacturing jobs. Now you agree there aren't any manufacturing jobs? My other point was that even when these jobs exist, people don't fill them. That's simply not true. The rate of unfilled manufacturing jobs is the same as it was in 2006, as it was in 2001. [http://research.stlouisfed.org/fredgraph.png?g=rs6 http://research.stlouisfed.org/fredgraph.png?g=rs6]. The overall rate of unfilled jobs per unemployed American is just coming off its lowest point in history [http://research.stlouisfed.org/fredgraph.png?g=rs7 http://research.stlouisfed.org/fredgraph.png?g=rs7]. Not sure how your post proves that my statements are ignorant and fairly abhorrent. Your view that people aren't working because they are too lazy or the illegals took all the jobs is not backed up by any facts whatsoever. Please attempt to develop the slightest bit of empathy and respect for your common man.
- goggles99 13y ago
  >Ugh. Please do some basic research before spouting off this nonsense. Government employment grew by 1.5% in the last decade. - http://research.stlouisfed.org/fredgraph.png?g=rs4 http://research.stlouisfed.org/fredgraph.png?g=rs4 I like how you pick and choose numbers to suit your points. Are you a statistician or a marketer? By size/jobs I am referring to contracted jobs also. I would almost throw fake disability on top there too (that the current administration almost actively encourages so cooked up unemployment numbers look better). >You literally said Americans were too lazy and entitled to fill all of the open manufacturing jobs. Now you agree there aren't any manufacturing jobs? Huh? What part of "250,000 jobs open" means none open? >That's simply not true. The rate of unfilled manufacturing jobs is the same as it was in 2006, as it was in 2001. [http://research.stlouisfed.org/fredgraph.png?g=rs6 http://research.stlouisfed.org/fredgraph.png?g=rs6]. The overall rate of unfilled jobs per unemployed American is just coming off its lowest point in history [http://research.stlouisfed.org/fredgraph.png?g=rs7 http://research.stlouisfed.org/fredgraph.png?g=rs7]. Rate relative to what? changing and skewed unemployment numbers? I can't even read your acronym described statistic charts. They are wrong half of the time and have reasons beyond the context of the survey the other half. Here is a statement from a great article from Mike Rowe (I would dare say that not many have more hands on experience with laborers) on the state of today's workers. http://profoundlydisconnected.com/cnn-viewer-has-questions/ http://profoundlydisconnected.com/cnn-viewer-has-questions/ Last week, I spent a few hours with the head of labor relations for one of the largest engineering firms in the world. He has thousands of positions open right now. Literally, thousands. After Katrina, his firm poured many millions of dollars into workforce development down in the Gulf. They trained — for free — hundreds of workers in a variety of positions that offered all kinds of opportunities to advance. The pay was fair. The benefits were solid. But the program ultimately failed. Why? Because virtually every single trainee decided it was just too damn hot. I’m not even kidding. They just didn’t want to work in the heat. And so … they didn’t. In the next few years, this company anticipates 15,000 new openings for welders and pipe-fitters in the southeast. And the head of recruitment has absolutely no idea where the workers will come from. That should scare us all. >Your view that people aren't working because they are too lazy or the illegals took all the jobs is not backed up by any facts whatsoever. Please attempt to develop the slightest bit of empathy and respect for your common man. Well if you have 245k jobs sitting there, and you have a bunch of people (many with families) practically going hungry, I would say that is lazy, not sure what you would call it. People in America have traditionally moved to the jobs. A company could build a factory out in the middle of nowhere and a town would spring up around it. No longer. Today people move to the local welfare/disability office. There is no arguing that the fundamental work ethic of Americans has changed dramatically over the past 30 years. IF I see 12 million illegals in the US and 3/4 of employable ones employed - then I see 10 million citizens crying out for help because they cannot find a job, Who an I supposed to be empathetic for? Someone who broke a law and entered our country illegally? or someone who came here or was born legally? I never stated that we should deport illegals either, I am just stating what happened to jobs. If 8m illegals are employed today, and 20 years ago it was 2m - to me that means that 6m jobs were filled by them that could have been filled by citizens. Does that simple math add up? Maybe those jobs wouldn't be filled because Americans won't pick peaches anymore. That is why I said that they are lazy. They would rather be a leech on their fellow citizens then be a janitor. How is that not lazy? I am getting sick of this thread. You are going way off topic of my statements and taking them way out of context so go ahead and have the last reply. I won't be looking at it.

mikeyouse 13y ago

Now just imagine in govt size/jobs had not grown by 40%+ in the last decade. Unemployment would be way worse. Ugh. Please do some basic research before spouting off this nonsense. Government employment grew by 1.5% in the last decade. - http://research.stlouisfed.org/fredgraph.png?g=rs4 http://research.stlouisfed.org/fredgraph.png?g=rs4 30% is a bit of a stretch, I admit - but don't believe the Census Bureau cheaters. So you'd rather trust a random site that confirms your biases? The only source for their 30% number is a poll by IBD/TIPP. The same firm that predicted John McCain would win the youth vote 74% - 22%. I'll leave that takedown up to Nate Silver: http://www.fivethirtyeight.com/2008/10/whats-wrong-with-this-picture-aka-nate.html http://www.fivethirtyeight.com/2008/10/whats-wrong-with-this... Of course there is only 250,000 jobs open, It's a declining industry. You don't see the Sears, Home Depot, Dell, or HP (to name a few) doing much hiring while they are doing layoffs (contracting) do you? This was partially my point (thanks for backing it up with sources). You literally said Americans were too lazy and entitled to fill all of the open manufacturing jobs. Now you agree there aren't any manufacturing jobs? My other point was that even when these jobs exist, people don't fill them. That's simply not true. The rate of unfilled manufacturing jobs is the same as it was in 2006, as it was in 2001. [http://research.stlouisfed.org/fredgraph.png?g=rs6 http://research.stlouisfed.org/fredgraph.png?g=rs6]. The overall rate of unfilled jobs per unemployed American is just coming off its lowest point in history [http://research.stlouisfed.org/fredgraph.png?g=rs7 http://research.stlouisfed.org/fredgraph.png?g=rs7]. Not sure how your post proves that my statements are ignorant and fairly abhorrent. Your view that people aren't working because they are too lazy or the illegals took all the jobs is not backed up by any facts whatsoever. Please attempt to develop the slightest bit of empathy and respect for your common man.

goggles99 13y ago
>Ugh. Please do some basic research before spouting off this nonsense. Government employment grew by 1.5% in the last decade. - http://research.stlouisfed.org/fredgraph.png?g=rs4 http://research.stlouisfed.org/fredgraph.png?g=rs4 I like how you pick and choose numbers to suit your points. Are you a statistician or a marketer? By size/jobs I am referring to contracted jobs also. I would almost throw fake disability on top there too (that the current administration almost actively encourages so cooked up unemployment numbers look better). >You literally said Americans were too lazy and entitled to fill all of the open manufacturing jobs. Now you agree there aren't any manufacturing jobs? Huh? What part of "250,000 jobs open" means none open? >That's simply not true. The rate of unfilled manufacturing jobs is the same as it was in 2006, as it was in 2001. [http://research.stlouisfed.org/fredgraph.png?g=rs6 http://research.stlouisfed.org/fredgraph.png?g=rs6]. The overall rate of unfilled jobs per unemployed American is just coming off its lowest point in history [http://research.stlouisfed.org/fredgraph.png?g=rs7 http://research.stlouisfed.org/fredgraph.png?g=rs7]. Rate relative to what? changing and skewed unemployment numbers? I can't even read your acronym described statistic charts. They are wrong half of the time and have reasons beyond the context of the survey the other half. Here is a statement from a great article from Mike Rowe (I would dare say that not many have more hands on experience with laborers) on the state of today's workers. http://profoundlydisconnected.com/cnn-viewer-has-questions/ http://profoundlydisconnected.com/cnn-viewer-has-questions/ Last week, I spent a few hours with the head of labor relations for one of the largest engineering firms in the world. He has thousands of positions open right now. Literally, thousands. After Katrina, his firm poured many millions of dollars into workforce development down in the Gulf. They trained — for free — hundreds of workers in a variety of positions that offered all kinds of opportunities to advance. The pay was fair. The benefits were solid. But the program ultimately failed. Why? Because virtually every single trainee decided it was just too damn hot. I’m not even kidding. They just didn’t want to work in the heat. And so … they didn’t. In the next few years, this company anticipates 15,000 new openings for welders and pipe-fitters in the southeast. And the head of recruitment has absolutely no idea where the workers will come from. That should scare us all. >Your view that people aren't working because they are too lazy or the illegals took all the jobs is not backed up by any facts whatsoever. Please attempt to develop the slightest bit of empathy and respect for your common man. Well if you have 245k jobs sitting there, and you have a bunch of people (many with families) practically going hungry, I would say that is lazy, not sure what you would call it. People in America have traditionally moved to the jobs. A company could build a factory out in the middle of nowhere and a town would spring up around it. No longer. Today people move to the local welfare/disability office. There is no arguing that the fundamental work ethic of Americans has changed dramatically over the past 30 years. IF I see 12 million illegals in the US and 3/4 of employable ones employed - then I see 10 million citizens crying out for help because they cannot find a job, Who an I supposed to be empathetic for? Someone who broke a law and entered our country illegally? or someone who came here or was born legally? I never stated that we should deport illegals either, I am just stating what happened to jobs. If 8m illegals are employed today, and 20 years ago it was 2m - to me that means that 6m jobs were filled by them that could have been filled by citizens. Does that simple math add up? Maybe those jobs wouldn't be filled because Americans won't pick peaches anymore. That is why I said that they are lazy. They would rather be a leech on their fellow citizens then be a janitor. How is that not lazy? I am getting sick of this thread. You are going way off topic of my statements and taking them way out of context so go ahead and have the last reply. I won't be looking at it.