4 ms·

Here's a suggestion: stop selling it. Where do you come up with a list of uses if you haven't done these trials? How do you know its safe? It might not be illeg

Here's a suggestion: stop selling it. Where do you come up with a list of uses if you haven't done these trials? How do you know its safe? It might not be illegal but that doesn't make it ethical.

rms 19y ago
Kratom has been used safely by the people of Southeast Asia for hundreds of years. It's banning in Thailand was an authoritarian reaction to Western war-on-drugs hysteria and the prohibition has failed miserably because kratom literally grows on trees in Southeast Asia. It would be like if the maple tree was banned in North America.
- greendestiny 19y ago
  Tabacco had been used for thousands of years before we understand more about its cancer risks. You haven't mentioned how you arrived at the beneficial uses of the drug either. Claiming similar efficacy to mainstream pharmaceuticals without similar proof is unethical. You don't think people should use kratom without their doctors advice? How many of your customers do you genuinely believe are acting on the advice of their medical professional? I think suggesting that they should get a doctors opinion purely on the basis that it might indemnify you or give your claims legitimacy is pretty unethical.
  - ingenium 19y ago
    Can you show me that tobacco was used habitually for thousands of years? It wasn't until Europeans started growing plantations of it in the Americas that it was used like this. The native people used it during ceremonial purposes, but this small of usage isn't harmful. We arrived that these beneficial uses from what others have said and from personal experience. I can testify that one "dose" of kratom is similar in strength to 20-30mg of hydrocodone. There also have been studies showing that the active ingredient is in fact an opiate. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/entrez?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=15770543&dopt=AbstractPlus http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/entrez?cmd=Retrieve&db... As for a doctor's opinion, I have several friends who are medical doctors and have tried kratom. They unanimously approve of kratom for medical as well as recreational uses.
    - drmed 19y ago
      > As for a doctor's opinion, I have several friends who are medical doctors and have tried kratom. They unanimously approve of kratom for medical as well as recreational uses. I'm sure they will write you a glowing endorsement for your website, name and all. I'm a doctor, and I unanimously disapprove.
    - greendestiny 19y ago
      Tobacco was used for a very long time habitually before we understand its dangers. Personal experience is not scientific evidence. While it seems reasonably well established that kratom is a minor analgesic like codeine, there seems to be basically no evidence for the other claims. Additionally its addictive.
- deleted 19y ago
  [deleted]
- herdrick 19y ago
  > kratom literally grows on trees You said before it was an opiate. Which is it, an opiate, or something from a tree?
  - rms 19y ago
    The leaf of the kratom tree is commonly referred to as kratom. It contains a mix of many different lkaloids. One of these alkaloids is 7-hydroxymitragynine, in the same way that one of the alkaloids of coffee is caffeine and one of the alkaloids of coca is cocaine. Animal testing shows that 7-hydroxymitragynine has opiod agonist activity 17-times greater than morphine.
davidw 19y ago
From the people who drank a lot of wine without any clinical trials at all: "caveat emptor". What he should be is transparent about the whole business. Don't try and fool people, give them all the information there is, and let them decide.

Here's a suggestion: stop selling it. Where do you come up with a list of uses if you haven't done these trials? How do you know its safe? It might not be illegal but that doesn't make it ethical.

rms 19y ago

Kratom has been used safely by the people of Southeast Asia for hundreds of years. It's banning in Thailand was an authoritarian reaction to Western war-on-drugs hysteria and the prohibition has failed miserably because kratom literally grows on trees in Southeast Asia. It would be like if the maple tree was banned in North America.

greendestiny 19y ago
Tabacco had been used for thousands of years before we understand more about its cancer risks. You haven't mentioned how you arrived at the beneficial uses of the drug either. Claiming similar efficacy to mainstream pharmaceuticals without similar proof is unethical. You don't think people should use kratom without their doctors advice? How many of your customers do you genuinely believe are acting on the advice of their medical professional? I think suggesting that they should get a doctors opinion purely on the basis that it might indemnify you or give your claims legitimacy is pretty unethical.
- ingenium 19y ago
  Can you show me that tobacco was used habitually for thousands of years? It wasn't until Europeans started growing plantations of it in the Americas that it was used like this. The native people used it during ceremonial purposes, but this small of usage isn't harmful. We arrived that these beneficial uses from what others have said and from personal experience. I can testify that one "dose" of kratom is similar in strength to 20-30mg of hydrocodone. There also have been studies showing that the active ingredient is in fact an opiate. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/entrez?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=15770543&dopt=AbstractPlus http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/entrez?cmd=Retrieve&db... As for a doctor's opinion, I have several friends who are medical doctors and have tried kratom. They unanimously approve of kratom for medical as well as recreational uses.
  - drmed 19y ago
    > As for a doctor's opinion, I have several friends who are medical doctors and have tried kratom. They unanimously approve of kratom for medical as well as recreational uses. I'm sure they will write you a glowing endorsement for your website, name and all. I'm a doctor, and I unanimously disapprove.
  - greendestiny 19y ago
    Tobacco was used for a very long time habitually before we understand its dangers. Personal experience is not scientific evidence. While it seems reasonably well established that kratom is a minor analgesic like codeine, there seems to be basically no evidence for the other claims. Additionally its addictive.
deleted 19y ago
[deleted]
herdrick 19y ago
> kratom literally grows on trees You said before it was an opiate. Which is it, an opiate, or something from a tree?
- rms 19y ago
  The leaf of the kratom tree is commonly referred to as kratom. It contains a mix of many different lkaloids. One of these alkaloids is 7-hydroxymitragynine, in the same way that one of the alkaloids of coffee is caffeine and one of the alkaloids of coca is cocaine. Animal testing shows that 7-hydroxymitragynine has opiod agonist activity 17-times greater than morphine.

davidw 19y ago

From the people who drank a lot of wine without any clinical trials at all: "caveat emptor". What he should be is transparent about the whole business. Don't try and fool people, give them all the information there is, and let them decide.