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>This is exactly the patronizing point of view that the Russians take of the Ukrainian identity: that it does not exist or that Ukraine is simply a part of Russ

>This is exactly the patronizing point of view that the Russians take of the Ukrainian identity: that it does not exist or that Ukraine is simply a part of Russia. Personally I believe Ukraine and Russia should be equals in whatever future association they make. I see nothing wrong with saying Russia should equally be a part of Ukraine. It is just easier to imagine the opposite because Russia is bigger. >This is exactly what the protesters are fighting. The fact that there are protesters on the streets right now is proof enough. There are all sorts of protesters out there, and I have read that most of them are protesting corruption, not the trade agreement or East vs West. Anyway, let the elections decide. >Just because one country invades another and subjugates its people for a period of time, does not make the occupied country a part of the occupying country. Except Ukraine willingly joined the Russian empire in 1654. And again, many Ukrainians would like closer ties to Russia. >Moreover, any cultural identity does not exist in a vacuum. By your logic we can argue that the US has no identity of its own and is still just a breakaway British colony that is due to join the UK any day now. The similarity is that the US and the UK have very strong relations, and a difference is that many hundreds of years have elapsed since the American revolution. But, similarly, during the American revolution, there were royalists, and a foreign power (the French) did intervene to defeat the British. The point is that many Ukrainians would like closer ties to Russia, particularly those in the East. Also, why pick the US when you can pick Canada- the Queen still comes by to visit, we have a governor-general, we are part of the commonwealth, and so on. A lot of people here feel close ties to the UK because of their British heritage.

IgorPartola 13y ago
Personally I believe Mexico and the US should be equals in whatever future association they make. I see nothing wrong with saying the US should equally be a part of Mexico. It is just easier to imagine the opposite because the US is bigger. Close relationships? Sure. Visa-free entry? Sure. Trade agreement? Sure. Exclusive one way relationship and political meddling in another country's dealings? No way.
- SpaceRaccoon 13y ago
  >Personally I believe Mexico and the US should be equals in whatever future association they make. I see nothing wrong with saying the US should equally be a part of Mexico. It is just easier to imagine the opposite because the US is bigger. What are you trying to say? Mexico and the United states are very different countries with distinct cultures and ethnicities. Ukraine and Russia are both Slavic nations with very similar cultures, traditions, languages, and histories, and I mean in many ways they are indistinguishable. Now, this doesn't mean I'm saying "Ukraine doesn't exist, or is a part of Russia"; I could equally be saying Russia doesn't exist and is a part of Ukraine. >Close relationships? Sure. Visa-free entry? Sure. Trade agreement? Sure. Exclusive one way relationship and political meddling in another country's dealings? No way. I disagree how? I don't think that Ukraine should be assimilated into Russia, or that Russian should be taught in Ukrainian schools even. I just think that the ties between Russia and Ukraine should be preserved, especially because so many people have roots in both countries.
  - IgorPartola 13y ago
    In that case Russia should have no problem with Ukraine entering into a trade agreement with the EU or even joining the EU as a member. It should also have no issue with Ukraine having its own democratic elections that do not include a puppet from Moscow.
    - SpaceRaccoon 13y ago
      >In that case Russia should have no problem with Ukraine entering into a trade agreement with the EU or even joining the EU as a member. The EU is offering Ukraine neither. Also, many Ukrainians do not want to join the EU. >It should also have no issue with Ukraine having its own democratic elections that do not include a puppet from Moscow. Are you implying the last elections were rigged?

IgorPartola 13y ago

Personally I believe Mexico and the US should be equals in whatever future association they make. I see nothing wrong with saying the US should equally be a part of Mexico. It is just easier to imagine the opposite because the US is bigger. Close relationships? Sure. Visa-free entry? Sure. Trade agreement? Sure. Exclusive one way relationship and political meddling in another country's dealings? No way.

SpaceRaccoon 13y ago
>Personally I believe Mexico and the US should be equals in whatever future association they make. I see nothing wrong with saying the US should equally be a part of Mexico. It is just easier to imagine the opposite because the US is bigger. What are you trying to say? Mexico and the United states are very different countries with distinct cultures and ethnicities. Ukraine and Russia are both Slavic nations with very similar cultures, traditions, languages, and histories, and I mean in many ways they are indistinguishable. Now, this doesn't mean I'm saying "Ukraine doesn't exist, or is a part of Russia"; I could equally be saying Russia doesn't exist and is a part of Ukraine. >Close relationships? Sure. Visa-free entry? Sure. Trade agreement? Sure. Exclusive one way relationship and political meddling in another country's dealings? No way. I disagree how? I don't think that Ukraine should be assimilated into Russia, or that Russian should be taught in Ukrainian schools even. I just think that the ties between Russia and Ukraine should be preserved, especially because so many people have roots in both countries.
- IgorPartola 13y ago
  In that case Russia should have no problem with Ukraine entering into a trade agreement with the EU or even joining the EU as a member. It should also have no issue with Ukraine having its own democratic elections that do not include a puppet from Moscow.
  - SpaceRaccoon 13y ago
    >In that case Russia should have no problem with Ukraine entering into a trade agreement with the EU or even joining the EU as a member. The EU is offering Ukraine neither. Also, many Ukrainians do not want to join the EU. >It should also have no issue with Ukraine having its own democratic elections that do not include a puppet from Moscow. Are you implying the last elections were rigged?