7 ms·

Apple TV graduates from hobby/accessory to product line ahead of major changes

55 points by rkudeshi 13y ago

jmelloy 13y ago
Our Apple TV is the main way we watch TV, but frankly the channel options are a bit bizarre, and half of the interesting ones require a cable contract. It'd be nice if they put a stake in the ground for ESPN, Disney, HBO Go, etc and didn't require a cable subscription. Seems like such a backwards model.
- Shivetya 13y ago
  Yes please, the cheapest plan I can add HBO too is the forty nine dollar plan... as in, screw the consumer. HBO leaves a lot of money on the table.
  - sutterbomb 13y ago
    It's really not safe to assume that media companies "leave a lot of money on the table" by not catering to cord cutters. Cord cutters are currently a very small market, and HBO would lose a lot of leverage over the cable companies. At the margin they'd rather have 1 cable subscription over 1 stand-alone subscription - or even two or three for that matter. The bear case is actually the opposite - they aren't leaving any money on the table now, but it will be at the expense of future growth. They'd be better cutting over to stand-alone sooner, at a loss in current revenue, to better position themselves for the future. That may or may not be the right play, but that's really how you should be reading the current market. Giant companies are often not very customer friendly, but they are rarely leaving obvious money on the table. [Edited for clarity]
- eob 13y ago
  I'm in the same situation and completely agree. My guess is that Apple is trying to build channel momentum any way they can. Unable to pre-negotiate deals and launch with a huge splash, as they prefer, they're doing it from the bottom up, starting with content providers like Crackle that probably get a lot more out of it than Apple does. But as we've seen, Crackle begets Smithsonian and Smithsonian begets PBS and PBS begets ABC. So it seems like it's working. I bet in the next year, we'll see some sort of foldering option for home screen icons.
  - 127001brewer 13y ago
    ...PBS begets ABC. Actually, Apple has a relationship with the Walt Disney Company[1], which owns the ABC, ESPN and the Disney channels - and many more. Perhaps these additional TV apps were added after enough content creators agreed to whatever terms. Also, interestingly enough, there is a show on Disney Junior that first premiered on the Disney Junior iPhone/iPad app before it was shown on the regular Disney Junior TV channel. Maybe this is a new model to beta test new content? [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Walt_Disney_Company#Disney_Media_Networks http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Walt_Disney_Company#Disney_...
acgourley 13y ago
Looking forward to this - the current design makes mirroring fail for most people, and mirroring is very important for our app.
- berberous 13y ago
  Why does mirroring fail? I'm curious because it usually fails for me. Are you just talking about the supposed new integration of the wireless AP with the Apple TV?
tehwebguy 13y ago
Hopefully that means better software support. The newest update has a bug with video playback after using iTunes Radio, video plays "through" the UI and no way for me to downgrade.
seivan 13y ago
I knew this would happen when they demoed Mavericks streaming. That's the coolest feature from Mavericks.
- lstamour 13y ago
  I figure their new Thunderbolt Display will be actual Apple TVs, and they'll justify the set-top box by integrating the Airport Express product so it can fulfill a standalone use if you're successfully upsold.
criswell 13y ago
I hope Apple loosens up their design guidelines. The Netflix app is terrible on Apple TV.
- greg5green 13y ago
  Maybe I'm just being silly but I really hope not. AppleTV is the only Netflix device I know of that won't automatically keep playing TV episodes (with no way to turn this "feature" off).
  - cwe 13y ago
    They just made that feature optional: https://support.netflix.com/en/node/2102 https://support.netflix.com/en/node/2102
    - greg5green 13y ago
      Took them long enough!
  - criswell 13y ago
    I'm not asking for continuous play really, just that it only be one click when the credits begin to roll ( or however they determine when to pop up that little modal for the next episode ).
    - mirkules 13y ago
      The Wii version of Netflix also does not play automatically - it's pretty much the only thing I use the Wii for.
      - greg5green 13y ago
        Unfortunately the Wii doesn't do 1080/720p stuff either though :/. The increase in quality is well worth spending $100 on some other type of streamer.
    - 13y ago
james33 13y ago
This lines up will with what I wrote about a month ago. Everyone's focus is on the Xbox One and Playstation 4, but the real challenger in the console space is an upgraded Apple TV (and other emerging products). http://goldfirestudios.com/blog/121/Why-the-Xbox-One-and-PS4-Aren%27t-the-Future http://goldfirestudios.com/blog/121/Why-the-Xbox-One-and-PS4...
kposehn 13y ago
Welp, time to start figuring out a business to build around the Apple TV. Should have started that a while back, but I was waiting for a sign they are moving. This is the equivalent to a highly telegraphed right hook from a boxer - that also happens to be heading directly for an opponent dazed, on the ropes. Sweeeeeeet.
127001brewer 13y ago
I think that the Apple TV is best misunderstood product that Apple makes (and perhaps it's misunderstood, and sometimes frustrating, because it's dependent on another device - your TV).
ChuckMcM 13y ago
Nice, this is very much a space about to get crazy. We started the process of keeping a journal of what we actually watch/use in our current satellite subscription and it was pretty revealing. Easily 80% of everything was available elsewhere in a more useful format.
izzydata 13y ago
The first thing that caught my eye on that page is "apple hdmi to hdmi". I immediately face-palmed in disgust.
- rayiner 13y ago
  It's not an (Apple HDMI) to HDMI cable. It's an Apple (HDMI to HDMI) cable.
  - Geee 13y ago
    This is a funny example of how people tend to see what they want to see.
benologist 13y ago
I really hope they merge it with airports, it's always nice to have one-less-device. I hope they put a ton of storage in it as well so it can be used for time machine and not have to always stream the movies I buy. The gaming is also a really exciting possibility, iOS has an amazing gaming ecosystem and I miss it a lot when I'm playing stuff on my kindle and phone. The only thing I'm not enthusiastic about is it will still be too locked down to replace my media pc.
- coob 13y ago
  Next to a huge EM shield (TV) isn't always the best place for an access point.
  - benologist 13y ago
    Is that something they're able or likely to solve?
    - makomk 13y ago
      Apple solution: "You're placing it wrong."
- bluthru 13y ago
  It really needs to be able to work without a computer or iOS device. Right now you can't use just storage attached to your router and the AppleTV. Annoying limitation.
  - rahimnathwani 13y ago
    Hmm... but how will they make money from the content on your external storage? If you bought the content from Apple, then (assuming a fast internet connection) they could let you stream it, without requiring a computer or iOS device. If you got the content someplace else, then that place is Apple's competitor.
    - 13y ago
doomlaser 13y ago
"We’re led to believe that the game integration will utilize existing iPads, iPhones, and iPod touches as controllers" This wouldn't come as a surprise, but using a buttonless handheld touchscreen as a controller would be a terrible interface for gaming on a tv.
- lstamour 13y ago
  More and more, I'm thinking iOS 7's new APIs were preparing for Apple's products in 2014 a year in advance. For instance, they now have physical controller support and a few controllers shipping, if that's your preference.
- siglesias 13y ago
  If you're trying to model something like an Xbox controller with a touch surface, then, as you say, no chance. If you're trying to model something simpler like a WiiMote, then I think you might hit closer to the mark. Let's keep in mind too the fun possibilities of asymmetric information games that are possible because of the display (think poker, football, Scrabble, Wii U type-games, etc).
- mortenjorck 13y ago
  I actually wrote about this three years ago (has it really been that long that we've been anticipating an Apple TV SDK?) with some thoughts about what a remote-slash-game-controller for iOS TV apps might look like: http://interuserface.net/2010/08/rethinking-the-remote/ http://interuserface.net/2010/08/rethinking-the-remote/
IBM 13y ago
This is how it's going to play out: 1. Updated Apple TV launches 2. Tech pundits and gadget blog commentators pan it because of limited content deals but most likely not living up to some pie in the sky ideal 3. Apple TV sells well 4. Apple keeps iterating on product adding new content as they get more leverage 5. Console gaming gets accidentally disrupted because they don't take the threat seriously and "it's just Angry Birds on your TV, not the good games like Call of Duty" 6. Installed base gets too large for Activision (and other large game studios) to ignore and launches Call of Duty on Apple TV 7. Another leg on the stool for Apple
- bluthru 13y ago
  The xbox live / collar doodie crowd isn't exactly a good brand image. I really don't think Apple is interested in the "13 year old boys shouting expletives at each other" market.
- magic_haze 13y ago
  I don't get it. This is the exact same model Roku, Google, Xbox, Ouya et al are trying to follow, and so far, they've all had limited success. Even Netflix and Amazon had to give up chasing after content and had to resort to making their own. What makes Apple's attempt so different from all the others in this area? (No sarcasm intended, I'm genuinely curious.) What leverage do they have that can guarantee them the kind of instant success that the idevices had? I guess integration with their other products is one advantage, but really, most other consoles have smartphone apps as well, and they're nothing special. The integration with Airplay that TFA touts seems rather dubious... isn't that just normal QOS any old router can do? EDIT: The most obvious advantage, I guess, is the large corpus of devs who are willing to rewrite their apps to target a new form factor. No other company right now commands that sort of manpower, and that, indirectly, may be enough to convince content owners and game publishers to target their platform.
  - bradbatt 13y ago
    What makes Apple's attempt so different from all the others in this area? Because literally with the press of a button you can make the video playing on your iPhone or iPad appear on your HDTV. Because you just plug in the Apple TV and hook it to your wireless network and it shows up on your iOS devices instantly as a recipient for video and music streaming. No setup. No confusing configuration. It just works. It's the same reason that Apple was the first company to really get video calls to work. Other vendors and phone companies tried to get video calls to work...and some of the tech crowd certainly made use of it. But Facetime was the first video calling system that made it ridiculously easy for non-technical folks to use.
jareds 13y ago
I just spend $1300 on a MacBook Air, but if the part about integrating with digital cable is true it looks like Apple will be getting even more of my money. As a blind person the apple TV is the only accessible set top box. The ability to actually have an accessible TV guide would be worth a couple hundred dollars to me especially if there was some kind of DVR functionality.
- kgermino 13y ago
  >As a blind person the apple TV is the only accessible set top box. OK, I'm curious. As a blind person, how much value do you get from watching TV? Do you just listen to the audio? What do you (for lack of a better term) watch? It seems like scripted shows typically have a lot of content that is only shown, not said; and most other content such as news and sports would be easy to get on the radio, which would seem preferable. Care to enlighten me?
  - jareds 13y ago
    Some sitcoms are fairly easy to follow. I watch a lot of documentaries on Netflix and Hulu. I also make use of airplay quite heavily especially for listening to sports games through radio apps on the iPhone.
    - kgermino 13y ago
      Interesting. Thanks!
KeepTalking 13y ago
I have 2 Apple TV devices and have loved the product in general. { Disclaimer - I am far from being an apple fan boy } Couple of things that require fixes. - Content: Frankly the current content is pretty lame. ABC has a sheepish presence catering to its prime TV shows. ESPN seems to use this as a vehicle for ESPN3. - Itunes: I had such a bad experience with itunes movie rentals over the weekend. Utterly bad streaming/buffering experience. Unacceptable. - Radio: Come on .... Do you know they have internet radio support? -Keyboard: Searching is such a pain. Try using the search on the youtube app. - Remote: The remote interferes with your Bluetooth receiver on your mac book. - lack of local storage
Geee 13y ago
Now I get it. I'm hundred percent sure that Apple TV integrates iBeacon powered mobile payments. How else do we pay for the on-demand content on TV? Just scan your fingerprint and there you go. Maybe even buy an advertised product that you see on TV, just like that. "This channel requires subscription, please verify your payment with your iDevice, thank you." Fantastic.

55 points by rkudeshi 13y ago

Our Apple TV is the main way we watch TV, but frankly the channel options are a bit bizarre, and half of the interesting ones require a cable contract. It'd be nice if they put a stake in the ground for ESPN, Disney, HBO Go, etc and didn't require a cable subscription. Seems like such a backwards model.

Shivetya 13y ago
Yes please, the cheapest plan I can add HBO too is the forty nine dollar plan... as in, screw the consumer. HBO leaves a lot of money on the table.
- sutterbomb 13y ago
  It's really not safe to assume that media companies "leave a lot of money on the table" by not catering to cord cutters. Cord cutters are currently a very small market, and HBO would lose a lot of leverage over the cable companies. At the margin they'd rather have 1 cable subscription over 1 stand-alone subscription - or even two or three for that matter. The bear case is actually the opposite - they aren't leaving any money on the table now, but it will be at the expense of future growth. They'd be better cutting over to stand-alone sooner, at a loss in current revenue, to better position themselves for the future. That may or may not be the right play, but that's really how you should be reading the current market. Giant companies are often not very customer friendly, but they are rarely leaving obvious money on the table. [Edited for clarity]
eob 13y ago
I'm in the same situation and completely agree. My guess is that Apple is trying to build channel momentum any way they can. Unable to pre-negotiate deals and launch with a huge splash, as they prefer, they're doing it from the bottom up, starting with content providers like Crackle that probably get a lot more out of it than Apple does. But as we've seen, Crackle begets Smithsonian and Smithsonian begets PBS and PBS begets ABC. So it seems like it's working. I bet in the next year, we'll see some sort of foldering option for home screen icons.
- 127001brewer 13y ago
  ...PBS begets ABC. Actually, Apple has a relationship with the Walt Disney Company[1], which owns the ABC, ESPN and the Disney channels - and many more. Perhaps these additional TV apps were added after enough content creators agreed to whatever terms. Also, interestingly enough, there is a show on Disney Junior that first premiered on the Disney Junior iPhone/iPad app before it was shown on the regular Disney Junior TV channel. Maybe this is a new model to beta test new content? [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Walt_Disney_Company#Disney_Media_Networks http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Walt_Disney_Company#Disney_...

acgourley 13y ago

Looking forward to this - the current design makes mirroring fail for most people, and mirroring is very important for our app.

berberous 13y ago
Why does mirroring fail? I'm curious because it usually fails for me. Are you just talking about the supposed new integration of the wireless AP with the Apple TV?

tehwebguy 13y ago

Hopefully that means better software support. The newest update has a bug with video playback after using iTunes Radio, video plays "through" the UI and no way for me to downgrade.

seivan 13y ago

I knew this would happen when they demoed Mavericks streaming. That's the coolest feature from Mavericks.

lstamour 13y ago
I figure their new Thunderbolt Display will be actual Apple TVs, and they'll justify the set-top box by integrating the Airport Express product so it can fulfill a standalone use if you're successfully upsold.

criswell 13y ago

I hope Apple loosens up their design guidelines. The Netflix app is terrible on Apple TV.

greg5green 13y ago
Maybe I'm just being silly but I really hope not. AppleTV is the only Netflix device I know of that won't automatically keep playing TV episodes (with no way to turn this "feature" off).
- cwe 13y ago
  They just made that feature optional: https://support.netflix.com/en/node/2102 https://support.netflix.com/en/node/2102
  - greg5green 13y ago
    Took them long enough!
- criswell 13y ago
  I'm not asking for continuous play really, just that it only be one click when the credits begin to roll ( or however they determine when to pop up that little modal for the next episode ).
  - mirkules 13y ago
    The Wii version of Netflix also does not play automatically - it's pretty much the only thing I use the Wii for.
    - greg5green 13y ago
      Unfortunately the Wii doesn't do 1080/720p stuff either though :/. The increase in quality is well worth spending $100 on some other type of streamer.
  - 13y ago

james33 13y ago

This lines up will with what I wrote about a month ago. Everyone's focus is on the Xbox One and Playstation 4, but the real challenger in the console space is an upgraded Apple TV (and other emerging products). http://goldfirestudios.com/blog/121/Why-the-Xbox-One-and-PS4-Aren%27t-the-Future http://goldfirestudios.com/blog/121/Why-the-Xbox-One-and-PS4...

kposehn 13y ago

Welp, time to start figuring out a business to build around the Apple TV. Should have started that a while back, but I was waiting for a sign they are moving. This is the equivalent to a highly telegraphed right hook from a boxer - that also happens to be heading directly for an opponent dazed, on the ropes. Sweeeeeeet.

127001brewer 13y ago

I think that the Apple TV is best misunderstood product that Apple makes (and perhaps it's misunderstood, and sometimes frustrating, because it's dependent on another device - your TV).

ChuckMcM 13y ago

Nice, this is very much a space about to get crazy. We started the process of keeping a journal of what we actually watch/use in our current satellite subscription and it was pretty revealing. Easily 80% of everything was available elsewhere in a more useful format.

izzydata 13y ago

The first thing that caught my eye on that page is "apple hdmi to hdmi". I immediately face-palmed in disgust.

rayiner 13y ago
It's not an (Apple HDMI) to HDMI cable. It's an Apple (HDMI to HDMI) cable.
- Geee 13y ago
  This is a funny example of how people tend to see what they want to see.

benologist 13y ago

I really hope they merge it with airports, it's always nice to have one-less-device. I hope they put a ton of storage in it as well so it can be used for time machine and not have to always stream the movies I buy. The gaming is also a really exciting possibility, iOS has an amazing gaming ecosystem and I miss it a lot when I'm playing stuff on my kindle and phone. The only thing I'm not enthusiastic about is it will still be too locked down to replace my media pc.

coob 13y ago
Next to a huge EM shield (TV) isn't always the best place for an access point.
- benologist 13y ago
  Is that something they're able or likely to solve?
  - makomk 13y ago
    Apple solution: "You're placing it wrong."
bluthru 13y ago
It really needs to be able to work without a computer or iOS device. Right now you can't use just storage attached to your router and the AppleTV. Annoying limitation.
- rahimnathwani 13y ago
  Hmm... but how will they make money from the content on your external storage? If you bought the content from Apple, then (assuming a fast internet connection) they could let you stream it, without requiring a computer or iOS device. If you got the content someplace else, then that place is Apple's competitor.
  - 13y ago

doomlaser 13y ago

"We’re led to believe that the game integration will utilize existing iPads, iPhones, and iPod touches as controllers" This wouldn't come as a surprise, but using a buttonless handheld touchscreen as a controller would be a terrible interface for gaming on a tv.

lstamour 13y ago
More and more, I'm thinking iOS 7's new APIs were preparing for Apple's products in 2014 a year in advance. For instance, they now have physical controller support and a few controllers shipping, if that's your preference.
siglesias 13y ago
If you're trying to model something like an Xbox controller with a touch surface, then, as you say, no chance. If you're trying to model something simpler like a WiiMote, then I think you might hit closer to the mark. Let's keep in mind too the fun possibilities of asymmetric information games that are possible because of the display (think poker, football, Scrabble, Wii U type-games, etc).
mortenjorck 13y ago
I actually wrote about this three years ago (has it really been that long that we've been anticipating an Apple TV SDK?) with some thoughts about what a remote-slash-game-controller for iOS TV apps might look like: http://interuserface.net/2010/08/rethinking-the-remote/ http://interuserface.net/2010/08/rethinking-the-remote/

IBM 13y ago

This is how it's going to play out: 1. Updated Apple TV launches 2. Tech pundits and gadget blog commentators pan it because of limited content deals but most likely not living up to some pie in the sky ideal 3. Apple TV sells well 4. Apple keeps iterating on product adding new content as they get more leverage 5. Console gaming gets accidentally disrupted because they don't take the threat seriously and "it's just Angry Birds on your TV, not the good games like Call of Duty" 6. Installed base gets too large for Activision (and other large game studios) to ignore and launches Call of Duty on Apple TV 7. Another leg on the stool for Apple

bluthru 13y ago
The xbox live / collar doodie crowd isn't exactly a good brand image. I really don't think Apple is interested in the "13 year old boys shouting expletives at each other" market.
magic_haze 13y ago
I don't get it. This is the exact same model Roku, Google, Xbox, Ouya et al are trying to follow, and so far, they've all had limited success. Even Netflix and Amazon had to give up chasing after content and had to resort to making their own. What makes Apple's attempt so different from all the others in this area? (No sarcasm intended, I'm genuinely curious.) What leverage do they have that can guarantee them the kind of instant success that the idevices had? I guess integration with their other products is one advantage, but really, most other consoles have smartphone apps as well, and they're nothing special. The integration with Airplay that TFA touts seems rather dubious... isn't that just normal QOS any old router can do? EDIT: The most obvious advantage, I guess, is the large corpus of devs who are willing to rewrite their apps to target a new form factor. No other company right now commands that sort of manpower, and that, indirectly, may be enough to convince content owners and game publishers to target their platform.
- bradbatt 13y ago
  What makes Apple's attempt so different from all the others in this area? Because literally with the press of a button you can make the video playing on your iPhone or iPad appear on your HDTV. Because you just plug in the Apple TV and hook it to your wireless network and it shows up on your iOS devices instantly as a recipient for video and music streaming. No setup. No confusing configuration. It just works. It's the same reason that Apple was the first company to really get video calls to work. Other vendors and phone companies tried to get video calls to work...and some of the tech crowd certainly made use of it. But Facetime was the first video calling system that made it ridiculously easy for non-technical folks to use.

jareds 13y ago

I just spend $1300 on a MacBook Air, but if the part about integrating with digital cable is true it looks like Apple will be getting even more of my money. As a blind person the apple TV is the only accessible set top box. The ability to actually have an accessible TV guide would be worth a couple hundred dollars to me especially if there was some kind of DVR functionality.

kgermino 13y ago
>As a blind person the apple TV is the only accessible set top box. OK, I'm curious. As a blind person, how much value do you get from watching TV? Do you just listen to the audio? What do you (for lack of a better term) watch? It seems like scripted shows typically have a lot of content that is only shown, not said; and most other content such as news and sports would be easy to get on the radio, which would seem preferable. Care to enlighten me?
- jareds 13y ago
  Some sitcoms are fairly easy to follow. I watch a lot of documentaries on Netflix and Hulu. I also make use of airplay quite heavily especially for listening to sports games through radio apps on the iPhone.
  - kgermino 13y ago
    Interesting. Thanks!

KeepTalking 13y ago

I have 2 Apple TV devices and have loved the product in general. { Disclaimer - I am far from being an apple fan boy } Couple of things that require fixes. - Content: Frankly the current content is pretty lame. ABC has a sheepish presence catering to its prime TV shows. ESPN seems to use this as a vehicle for ESPN3. - Itunes: I had such a bad experience with itunes movie rentals over the weekend. Utterly bad streaming/buffering experience. Unacceptable. - Radio: Come on .... Do you know they have internet radio support? -Keyboard: Searching is such a pain. Try using the search on the youtube app. - Remote: The remote interferes with your Bluetooth receiver on your mac book. - lack of local storage

Geee 13y ago

Now I get it. I'm hundred percent sure that Apple TV integrates iBeacon powered mobile payments. How else do we pay for the on-demand content on TV? Just scan your fingerprint and there you go. Maybe even buy an advertised product that you see on TV, just like that. "This channel requires subscription, please verify your payment with your iDevice, thank you." Fantastic.