6 ms·

I know, I know I sound like a dick here, but I think this is one of those cases where his being born and raised in India is a contributing factor. Indian cultu

by JPKab 13y ago

I know, I know I sound like a dick here, but I think this is one of those cases where his being born and raised in India is a contributing factor. Indian culture is vastly different than ours, including a very high "power distance" measurement compared to typical Western nations. In India, if you're rich (or even middle class), you have servants and you do what you want. In his view, this is his, and he doesn't have to share it with the lesser people. Sure, many people born in America would do this too, but they would possibly feel a bit more guilty about it.

pm90 13y ago
Actuallly, he's kind of a dick anyways. He once gave an interview with the BBC about IIT's where he said that the IIT's were so difficult that he "cruised through the CMU master's program". Later, it was revealed that at the time he attended, the IIT's had a 5 year bachelor's program; something that he conveniently forgot to mention.
- jonny_eh 13y ago
  What's IIT and CMU? SVP?
  - saryant 13y ago
    Indian Institute of Technology and Carnegie Mellon.
  - wavefunction 13y ago
    Probably Carnegie-Mellon, a University in Pennsylvania that has an excellent (top 10 in US) engineering program.
- GFischer 13y ago
  What's the standard bachelor's program in the US? We have a 5 year bachelor's here (Uruguay) for all engineering degrees (including Computer Science which is bundled with engineering here), and many have told me it's equivalent to a Master's in the US.
  - toomuchtodo 13y ago
    The typical US bachelor's is 4 years, and 1-3 years for a master's, depending on the subject.
- ajju 13y ago
  The IIT example is probably misplaced. My dad went to the IIT at roughly the same time. Based on conversations I have had with him, the IITs had a 5 year program at that time because the students who got in had very different levels of some fundamental skills especially ones related to English and Communications. My dad, for example, studied K-12* in a school where his medium of instruction wasn't English. He got into IIT because he placed first in his school district/state but he couldn't converse fluently in English and spent his first year basically learning English and "mapping" math/science concepts he had learned in our native language to English. * - My recollection is weak on this, but I think India (or some parts of India at least) may have had a K-11 system at this time instead of a K-12 system.
taway2012 13y ago
Yeah, I know this is just an Internet forum so who cares what's said right? But ... But Ask the Korean made an excellent point about culturalism: "The term "culturalism" is my coinage ... is the unwarranted impulse to explain people's behavior with a "cultural difference", whether real or imagined. Because the culturalist impulse always attempts to explain more with culture than warranted, the "cultural difference" used in a cultural explanation is more often imagined than real. To paraphrase Abraham Maslow, to a man with a culturalist impulse, every problem looks like a cultural problem." http://askakorean.blogspot.com/2013/07/culturalism-gladwell-and-airplane.html http://askakorean.blogspot.com/2013/07/culturalism-gladwell-... FYI most Indians in the US like the more egalitarian, US way of lower "power distance" better.
- blah32497 13y ago
  Sorry, but this is such a vapid statement. Yes, sometimes people ascribe things to culture which aren't due to culture, and sometimes the converse is true too. It's one thing to say "No, actually you're ascribing something to culture which isn't part of Indian culture at all. This is just him being a tool" but you've made no effort to explain why you think his actions aren't in line with his cultural upbringing. PS: As a child of immigrants, I constantly see how culture is the root cause of a lot of my parent's "bad"/unacceptable-in-America behavior.
  - piyush_soni 13y ago
    >>As a child of immigrants, I constantly see how culture is the root cause of a lot of my parent's "bad"/unacceptable-in-America behavior. Yes, but kindness is not one of them.
dhaneshnm 13y ago
I grew up in India. And I agree with you here. Being said that, I doubt how "feeling less guilty" make any difference, if they are going to do it anyway.
- piyush_soni 13y ago
  So you mean you agree that it's a "culture" specific to India that rich people don't think they should give back to lesser privileged? You are sadly mistaken. Being rich, anywhere makes you less compassionate (there are studies). On the other hand, almost everywhere in the world there have still been many rich people who were very kind. Azim Premji, Rattan Tata are examples off top of my head of big businessmen who gives back too much. On the other hand, rich people like Steve Jobs and many more in the USA were not at all kind from any reference. Kindness is not a cultural trait. It's a personal trait. Edit: One link to substantiate my claim: http://www.upworthy.com/take-two-normal-people-add-money-to-just-one-of-them-and-watch-what-happens-next http://www.upworthy.com/take-two-normal-people-add-money-to-...
  - JPKab 13y ago
    No, he must be a racist, since he's saying exactly what I said. After all, you are ascribing a motive to me, so why not him? You self-righteous whiner.
    - piyush_soni 13y ago
      You are a racist. He is talking about his own race, so can't logically be. However, he is just being an elitist here. A lot of Indian people start thinking high of themselves once they arrive to the US. It's in our blood, since we were ruled by Europeans for 190 years. :) The thing common between you two here is that both are drawing wrong and uneducated conclusions here. There is no causal relationship between being an Indian and being 'unkind' (Yes, I still know you didn't use a direct word, but you didn't reply to my next comment to you, so I assume you meant something very similar to that).
      - 13y ago
deleted 13y ago
[deleted]
alphanancy 13y ago
You seem like an expert on Indian philosophy and culture. Did you watch slum dog?
amalag 13y ago
If he is an asshole, no point blaming it on being Indian.
piyush_soni 13y ago
Wow. So having servants and being a douchebag are the same things, that you straight away conclude since they have servants they are heartless? Do you use services of carpet cleaners? Car cleaners? Two men and a truck? Professional Lawn mowing services? Do you get your oil changed, tire rotated by servicemen and pay them money? Servants services in India are not much different than that - there are just professional cooks, professional dish cleaners, or professional house cleaners - just like the cheap Mexican house cleaning services your people use. Some of them in India live in (and of course charge more) - and eat with the family. of course in the western countries they are blown up saying Indians are heartless. It is claimed these servants are cruelly made to work more than 40 hours, but no one realizes it's a developing country, resources are scarce - even those middle class 'owners' of those servants are working for more than 60 hours a week. Why wouldn't their servants work that much voluntarily to earn a living? Sure, you haven't seen poverty. In India it's still about survival, in US of A it's not. I hope people in India can conclude the same about all Americans on one isolated incidence of Steve Jobs being an asshole (much more than this Khosla is). Or one Monsanto Corp. ready to compromise global health and life for money. Yes, sir, you are not 'being' a dick, you are a dick.
- piyush_soni 13y ago
  Definitely, hidden behind internet usernames, a lot of people (who would not otherwise) show their racist side even here on HN.
- JPKab 13y ago
  Yeah, I never said anything like what you are ascribing to me. That's all in your interpretation. Heartless? I didn't say that, YOU did. I grew up in a rural household. We never once hired anyone to do any of the things you mentioned, by the way. We did them ourselves. The cultural difference is there, and your weak attempt to draw parallels is absurd.
  - piyush_soni 13y ago
    Ha. Yes, you didn't say any name at all. So what name would you ascribe to "if he is rich .... In his view, this is his, and he doesn't have to share it with the lesser people". 'Unkind' would be a good approximation? Or you'll find some euphemism? And your interpretation is that Indians feel less guilty about it as well. So sure, Americans do it, but feel more guilty. How sweet :). You might not have used these services. I was clearly talking about "yours" culture, which you are using to draw differences. But you'd be living in a cave if you don't think that most of the Americans who can afford use these services. But still, let's blame Indian culture without knowing much. Cultural differences are always there. The important thing, however, is to know where does it apply and where it doesn't. Edit: And why doesn't my example of the unkind Steve Jobs doesn't apply here - because you don't like it? Did he share anything of what he earned with the 'lesser people'? :) In fact, he shut down all the philanthropic activities that were going on in his company instead. So why shouldn't I, by that analogy, generalize that to be the "American culture"? I think my argument definitely applies here and there's certainly a similarity. You might not want to accept that, of course.

by JPKab 13y ago

pm90 13y ago

Actuallly, he's kind of a dick anyways. He once gave an interview with the BBC about IIT's where he said that the IIT's were so difficult that he "cruised through the CMU master's program". Later, it was revealed that at the time he attended, the IIT's had a 5 year bachelor's program; something that he conveniently forgot to mention.

jonny_eh 13y ago
What's IIT and CMU? SVP?
- saryant 13y ago
  Indian Institute of Technology and Carnegie Mellon.
- wavefunction 13y ago
  Probably Carnegie-Mellon, a University in Pennsylvania that has an excellent (top 10 in US) engineering program.
GFischer 13y ago
What's the standard bachelor's program in the US? We have a 5 year bachelor's here (Uruguay) for all engineering degrees (including Computer Science which is bundled with engineering here), and many have told me it's equivalent to a Master's in the US.
- toomuchtodo 13y ago
  The typical US bachelor's is 4 years, and 1-3 years for a master's, depending on the subject.
ajju 13y ago
The IIT example is probably misplaced. My dad went to the IIT at roughly the same time. Based on conversations I have had with him, the IITs had a 5 year program at that time because the students who got in had very different levels of some fundamental skills especially ones related to English and Communications. My dad, for example, studied K-12* in a school where his medium of instruction wasn't English. He got into IIT because he placed first in his school district/state but he couldn't converse fluently in English and spent his first year basically learning English and "mapping" math/science concepts he had learned in our native language to English. * - My recollection is weak on this, but I think India (or some parts of India at least) may have had a K-11 system at this time instead of a K-12 system.

taway2012 13y ago

Yeah, I know this is just an Internet forum so who cares what's said right? But ... But Ask the Korean made an excellent point about culturalism: "The term "culturalism" is my coinage ... is the unwarranted impulse to explain people's behavior with a "cultural difference", whether real or imagined. Because the culturalist impulse always attempts to explain more with culture than warranted, the "cultural difference" used in a cultural explanation is more often imagined than real. To paraphrase Abraham Maslow, to a man with a culturalist impulse, every problem looks like a cultural problem." http://askakorean.blogspot.com/2013/07/culturalism-gladwell-and-airplane.html http://askakorean.blogspot.com/2013/07/culturalism-gladwell-... FYI most Indians in the US like the more egalitarian, US way of lower "power distance" better.

blah32497 13y ago
Sorry, but this is such a vapid statement. Yes, sometimes people ascribe things to culture which aren't due to culture, and sometimes the converse is true too. It's one thing to say "No, actually you're ascribing something to culture which isn't part of Indian culture at all. This is just him being a tool" but you've made no effort to explain why you think his actions aren't in line with his cultural upbringing. PS: As a child of immigrants, I constantly see how culture is the root cause of a lot of my parent's "bad"/unacceptable-in-America behavior.
- piyush_soni 13y ago
  >>As a child of immigrants, I constantly see how culture is the root cause of a lot of my parent's "bad"/unacceptable-in-America behavior. Yes, but kindness is not one of them.

dhaneshnm 13y ago

I grew up in India. And I agree with you here. Being said that, I doubt how "feeling less guilty" make any difference, if they are going to do it anyway.

piyush_soni 13y ago
So you mean you agree that it's a "culture" specific to India that rich people don't think they should give back to lesser privileged? You are sadly mistaken. Being rich, anywhere makes you less compassionate (there are studies). On the other hand, almost everywhere in the world there have still been many rich people who were very kind. Azim Premji, Rattan Tata are examples off top of my head of big businessmen who gives back too much. On the other hand, rich people like Steve Jobs and many more in the USA were not at all kind from any reference. Kindness is not a cultural trait. It's a personal trait. Edit: One link to substantiate my claim: http://www.upworthy.com/take-two-normal-people-add-money-to-just-one-of-them-and-watch-what-happens-next http://www.upworthy.com/take-two-normal-people-add-money-to-...
- JPKab 13y ago
  No, he must be a racist, since he's saying exactly what I said. After all, you are ascribing a motive to me, so why not him? You self-righteous whiner.
  - piyush_soni 13y ago
    You are a racist. He is talking about his own race, so can't logically be. However, he is just being an elitist here. A lot of Indian people start thinking high of themselves once they arrive to the US. It's in our blood, since we were ruled by Europeans for 190 years. :) The thing common between you two here is that both are drawing wrong and uneducated conclusions here. There is no causal relationship between being an Indian and being 'unkind' (Yes, I still know you didn't use a direct word, but you didn't reply to my next comment to you, so I assume you meant something very similar to that).
    - 13y ago

deleted 13y ago

[deleted]

alphanancy 13y ago

You seem like an expert on Indian philosophy and culture. Did you watch slum dog?

amalag 13y ago

If he is an asshole, no point blaming it on being Indian.

piyush_soni 13y ago

Wow. So having servants and being a douchebag are the same things, that you straight away conclude since they have servants they are heartless? Do you use services of carpet cleaners? Car cleaners? Two men and a truck? Professional Lawn mowing services? Do you get your oil changed, tire rotated by servicemen and pay them money? Servants services in India are not much different than that - there are just professional cooks, professional dish cleaners, or professional house cleaners - just like the cheap Mexican house cleaning services your people use. Some of them in India live in (and of course charge more) - and eat with the family. of course in the western countries they are blown up saying Indians are heartless. It is claimed these servants are cruelly made to work more than 40 hours, but no one realizes it's a developing country, resources are scarce - even those middle class 'owners' of those servants are working for more than 60 hours a week. Why wouldn't their servants work that much voluntarily to earn a living? Sure, you haven't seen poverty. In India it's still about survival, in US of A it's not. I hope people in India can conclude the same about all Americans on one isolated incidence of Steve Jobs being an asshole (much more than this Khosla is). Or one Monsanto Corp. ready to compromise global health and life for money. Yes, sir, you are not 'being' a dick, you are a dick.

piyush_soni 13y ago
Definitely, hidden behind internet usernames, a lot of people (who would not otherwise) show their racist side even here on HN.
JPKab 13y ago
Yeah, I never said anything like what you are ascribing to me. That's all in your interpretation. Heartless? I didn't say that, YOU did. I grew up in a rural household. We never once hired anyone to do any of the things you mentioned, by the way. We did them ourselves. The cultural difference is there, and your weak attempt to draw parallels is absurd.
- piyush_soni 13y ago
  Ha. Yes, you didn't say any name at all. So what name would you ascribe to "if he is rich .... In his view, this is his, and he doesn't have to share it with the lesser people". 'Unkind' would be a good approximation? Or you'll find some euphemism? And your interpretation is that Indians feel less guilty about it as well. So sure, Americans do it, but feel more guilty. How sweet :). You might not have used these services. I was clearly talking about "yours" culture, which you are using to draw differences. But you'd be living in a cave if you don't think that most of the Americans who can afford use these services. But still, let's blame Indian culture without knowing much. Cultural differences are always there. The important thing, however, is to know where does it apply and where it doesn't. Edit: And why doesn't my example of the unkind Steve Jobs doesn't apply here - because you don't like it? Did he share anything of what he earned with the 'lesser people'? :) In fact, he shut down all the philanthropic activities that were going on in his company instead. So why shouldn't I, by that analogy, generalize that to be the "American culture"? I think my argument definitely applies here and there's certainly a similarity. You might not want to accept that, of course.