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That's weird. - Ukraine needed to adapt their laws to EU standards before signing the association with EU. - Pro-EU protesters fight against these laws. I'm

by viach 13y ago

That's weird. - Ukraine needed to adapt their laws to EU standards before signing the association with EU. - Pro-EU protesters fight against these laws. I'm lost here.

nodata 13y ago
> Pro-EU protesters fight against these laws. Huh? Against which laws in particular?
- replax 13y ago
  In many EU countries, such as Germany for example, it is illegal to wear helmets or even any gear which might hide your identity like ski masks, large hats etc. Therefore, it's kind of ironic, as those laws are "standard" in many EU countries. Nevertheless, people even in those countries now become very upset about the Ukraine banning headgear......
  - spindritf 13y ago
    In many EU countries, such as Germany for example, it is illegal to wear helmets or even any gear which might hide your identity like ski masks, large hats etc. Are any of those laws EU-mandated though? Because while the bulk of legislation in member states comes from Brussels, and there is a lot of harmonization effort, it is mostly focused on economic regulations. German parliament passing a law carries no obligation for other countries to adopt similar legislation.
  - pizza234 13y ago
    Things need to be put in context. It's ironc as much as the fact that in many EU countries, when people protest, they don't get brutally beaten, if they're lucky, or kidnapped, tortured and thrown into the fields, possibly dead, when they're not, or that doctors and journalists are not being shot and killed, and so on.
    - pitiburi 13y ago
      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2001_Raid_on_Armando_Diaz http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2001_Raid_on_Armando_Diaz
      - PavlovsCat 13y ago
        The poster said "in many EU countries". Not "all EU countries".
  - deleted 13y ago
    [deleted]
PavlovsCat 13y ago
This hasn't been about "pro-EU protests" for a long time now. There were these protests, end of November 2013, they were brutally attacked and made illegal, and then the really big protests began, against the police brutality and the corrupt regime. The anti-protest laws were made (they didn't even bother to count the votes) 1.5 months into that. To suggest they were created to allow signing the treaty means you're very lost indeed.
- viach 13y ago
  Ok, so it's not about these laws anymore? Lets take them back then? And why these protests began in 2014 (not 1 or 2 years before), occasionally before signing papers with EU and exactly in pre-new-year period?
  - PavlovsCat 13y ago
    Because that violent dispersal of peaceful protests (pro EU treaty) were the straw that broke the camels back, and from then on one thing lead to another. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Euromaidan http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Euromaidan
guard-of-terra 13y ago
There is no pressure from EU on Ukraine to ramp-up their protest laws for anything. Is there? Show us.
- viach 13y ago
  You could read the source : http://comeuroint.rada.gov.ua/komevroint/doccatalog/document?id=56219 http://comeuroint.rada.gov.ua/komevroint/doccatalog/document...
  - guard-of-terra 13y ago
    I can't read Ukrainian so maybe you could extract a relevant quote regarding anti-protest laws?
    - viach 13y ago
      Ok. By "these laws" i meant not exactly the list of laws by 16 Nov, you are right in this. The idea is that protesters fight against EU-like laws from one side and want to join the EU from another (read the source with google translate). Looks like double standards for me.
      - guard-of-terra 13y ago
        Why do you call laws that exist in specific EU countries, often for historic reasons, "EU-like"? Some EU states might have all kinds of weird laws, like, you should not be rude to King, or that you should not blasphemy against Anglican faith - but how does all that automatically apply to Ukraine? Unless you have a case of uniform and mandatory all-EU anti-protest laws that are rejected by Ukrainians, you have a shaky position here.
  - gkoz 13y ago
    There're 236 pages there. Can you be more specific?

by viach 13y ago

That's weird. - Ukraine needed to adapt their laws to EU standards before signing the association with EU. - Pro-EU protesters fight against these laws. I'm lost here.

nodata 13y ago

> Pro-EU protesters fight against these laws. Huh? Against which laws in particular?

replax 13y ago
In many EU countries, such as Germany for example, it is illegal to wear helmets or even any gear which might hide your identity like ski masks, large hats etc. Therefore, it's kind of ironic, as those laws are "standard" in many EU countries. Nevertheless, people even in those countries now become very upset about the Ukraine banning headgear......
- spindritf 13y ago
  In many EU countries, such as Germany for example, it is illegal to wear helmets or even any gear which might hide your identity like ski masks, large hats etc. Are any of those laws EU-mandated though? Because while the bulk of legislation in member states comes from Brussels, and there is a lot of harmonization effort, it is mostly focused on economic regulations. German parliament passing a law carries no obligation for other countries to adopt similar legislation.
- pizza234 13y ago
  Things need to be put in context. It's ironc as much as the fact that in many EU countries, when people protest, they don't get brutally beaten, if they're lucky, or kidnapped, tortured and thrown into the fields, possibly dead, when they're not, or that doctors and journalists are not being shot and killed, and so on.
  - pitiburi 13y ago
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2001_Raid_on_Armando_Diaz http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2001_Raid_on_Armando_Diaz
    - PavlovsCat 13y ago
      The poster said "in many EU countries". Not "all EU countries".
- deleted 13y ago
  [deleted]

PavlovsCat 13y ago

This hasn't been about "pro-EU protests" for a long time now. There were these protests, end of November 2013, they were brutally attacked and made illegal, and then the really big protests began, against the police brutality and the corrupt regime. The anti-protest laws were made (they didn't even bother to count the votes) 1.5 months into that. To suggest they were created to allow signing the treaty means you're very lost indeed.

viach 13y ago
Ok, so it's not about these laws anymore? Lets take them back then? And why these protests began in 2014 (not 1 or 2 years before), occasionally before signing papers with EU and exactly in pre-new-year period?
- PavlovsCat 13y ago
  Because that violent dispersal of peaceful protests (pro EU treaty) were the straw that broke the camels back, and from then on one thing lead to another. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Euromaidan http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Euromaidan

guard-of-terra 13y ago

There is no pressure from EU on Ukraine to ramp-up their protest laws for anything. Is there? Show us.

viach 13y ago
You could read the source : http://comeuroint.rada.gov.ua/komevroint/doccatalog/document?id=56219 http://comeuroint.rada.gov.ua/komevroint/doccatalog/document...
- guard-of-terra 13y ago
  I can't read Ukrainian so maybe you could extract a relevant quote regarding anti-protest laws?
  - viach 13y ago
    Ok. By "these laws" i meant not exactly the list of laws by 16 Nov, you are right in this. The idea is that protesters fight against EU-like laws from one side and want to join the EU from another (read the source with google translate). Looks like double standards for me.
    - guard-of-terra 13y ago
      Why do you call laws that exist in specific EU countries, often for historic reasons, "EU-like"? Some EU states might have all kinds of weird laws, like, you should not be rude to King, or that you should not blasphemy against Anglican faith - but how does all that automatically apply to Ukraine? Unless you have a case of uniform and mandatory all-EU anti-protest laws that are rejected by Ukrainians, you have a shaky position here.
- gkoz 13y ago
  There're 236 pages there. Can you be more specific?