6 ms·

If you actually read the laws that Yanukovych passed, they were hardly extreme, and are close to what is in place in most Western countries already. Limits on

by Mikeb85 13y ago

If you actually read the laws that Yanukovych passed, they were hardly extreme, and are close to what is in place in most Western countries already. Limits on shutting down infrastructure, arming yourself in a protest, wearing body armour, inciting violence, and setting up tents in public areas... Things which are illegal everywhere in the West. But everyone gets their news through a filter here, no one reads primary sources, no one reads Ukrainian or Russian or even bothers with translation tools... Edit - love the downvotes for suggesting people look into primary sources. Guess people love being sheep.

mishkaechoes 13y ago
Coupled with a 15 year term?
- viach 13y ago
  -- Coupled with a 15 year term? -- no one reads primary sources
cLeEOGPw 13y ago
These laws are irrelevant to the situation. The protest tarted because Yanukovic refused to sign economic treaty with EU and instead accepted money from Russia. And that was not the whole reason either, it was just last drop in the glass of patience. The corruption is the core reason, and people want to join EU in hopes that EU will help reduce the corruption.
- viach 13y ago
  -- Yanukovic refused to sign economic treaty with EU Wrong.
  - choult 13y ago
    Set us straight then; expand your responses with your own knowledge of primary sources. Enlighten us.
    - vetinari 13y ago
      Janukovic asked EU first, they sent him home ("the problem with Ukrainian financing is your own, we don't care"). Then he asked Russia for a loan and they said yes.
      - guard-of-terra 13y ago
        Now you have to admit that Janukovic asking EU first was not the most Russia-friendly thing you can imagine. And then some people should stop from blaming Russia for Janukovic being their toy. He is his own toy.
        vetinari 13y ago
        Blaming Russia is a convenient scapegoat: "See, those evil Russians?" Janukovic is Achmetov's toy.
      - dmytrish 13y ago
        Yanukovych had requested whopping $160 bln. And just guess where a large part of this sum would go. So his requirement looked like extortion, moreover, after a little shock I realized that this money meant "You give me 160 billions, I sell you Ukraine and you can do anything you want there".
    - viach 13y ago
      -- Enlighten us. Just like cLeEOGPw did? Someone says "this is bad". Someone else says "this is good". As simple as that. No arguments in both cases.
      - zxcdw 13y ago
        But you decide to not provide additional information. You knowingly settle for not providing actual arguments to back up your claims. Do you think that these qualities are what Ukrainian people would want their society to be based upon?
        13y ago
computer 13y ago
Yeah, because 2 years in prison is a completely reasonable sentence for researching the background of police officers or politicians, i.e. looking into corruption. And 10 years of prison for being at a protest is hardly extreme as well. Or prison for wearing head protection when the police is shooting at you.
- Mikeb85 13y ago
  > Yeah, because 2 years in prison is a completely reasonable sentence for researching the background of police officers or politicians, i.e. looking into corruption. And 10 years of prison for being at a protest is hardly extreme as well. Or prison for wearing head protection when the police is shooting at you. You've basically proven my point. Step 1: Read the Ukrainian laws. Step 2: Read the laws of your own country. Step 3: Compare.
  - IgorPartola 13y ago
    Please stop trolling. There are always places where laws are worse than somewhere else. Just because an unjust law exists somewhere else in the world does not make it less unjust.
    - Mikeb85 13y ago
      Again, the laws in Ukraine were no harsher than what the US or Canada has. Not like we're a terrible place to live...
      - IgorPartola 13y ago
        Again, these laws are unjust everywhere. Also remember that Ukraine does not have "Supreme Court". If the government passes a law that is unjust (talking about the EU treating now), the people have a mandate to protest. That is the checks and balances system at play there. Making protests illegal there means that you remove one of the main checks.
        13y ago
1angryhacker 13y ago
I wonder how many people upvoted this without reading primary sources, studying Ukrainian/Russian reports or using translation tools. In fact, I wonder how many people commented on this without reading the laws in their own countries.
PavlovsCat 13y ago
29th november 2013, journalists (along with everyone else) get beaten brutally by storm troopers: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eE6wBzLgEH8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eE6wBzLgEH8 more recently, men in plain clothes with white armbands: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rrl6Uw--nYc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rrl6Uw--nYc Would you like to know more? There's more. But I guess you could always say that there is no context, or that these are just isolated incidents not sanctioned from above, so I'm not sure if I should bother posting more. But I have been following this for like a week, reading and watching a lot, and I would say the situation is actually worse than many people in the west are aware of. And now, for something completely different! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GGaQ5BDNouM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GGaQ5BDNouM
- Mikeb85 13y ago
  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DxPzWoYjAnY http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DxPzWoYjAnY http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cl_iutoQPvY http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cl_iutoQPvY
  - PavlovsCat 13y ago
    Oh, I'm under no delusion about police brutality in the west, here in Germany as well. Doesn't make it okay though, or unworthy of resisting and trying to get things changed.
    - Mikeb85 13y ago
      But should we incite revolution in a country, making things much worse in the process, destroying economies and the unity of a country for such a reason? Revolution always makes things worse before they get better...
      - PavlovsCat 13y ago
        Unity could be restored by the rest of the country joining them, the revolution could be ended by the president resigning. Revolution always makes things worse before they get better... Yes, sadly. And the outcome of this is unclear. But I can't blame them for trying. As they say, better an end with terror than terror without end. They are risking their lives not just out of sheer boredom or greed, but because they have been pushed into a corner and saw no other way out.

by Mikeb85 13y ago

mishkaechoes 13y ago

Coupled with a 15 year term?

viach 13y ago
-- Coupled with a 15 year term? -- no one reads primary sources

cLeEOGPw 13y ago

These laws are irrelevant to the situation. The protest tarted because Yanukovic refused to sign economic treaty with EU and instead accepted money from Russia. And that was not the whole reason either, it was just last drop in the glass of patience. The corruption is the core reason, and people want to join EU in hopes that EU will help reduce the corruption.

viach 13y ago
-- Yanukovic refused to sign economic treaty with EU Wrong.
- choult 13y ago
  Set us straight then; expand your responses with your own knowledge of primary sources. Enlighten us.
  - vetinari 13y ago
    Janukovic asked EU first, they sent him home ("the problem with Ukrainian financing is your own, we don't care"). Then he asked Russia for a loan and they said yes.
    - guard-of-terra 13y ago
      Now you have to admit that Janukovic asking EU first was not the most Russia-friendly thing you can imagine. And then some people should stop from blaming Russia for Janukovic being their toy. He is his own toy.
      - vetinari 13y ago
        Blaming Russia is a convenient scapegoat: "See, those evil Russians?" Janukovic is Achmetov's toy.
    - dmytrish 13y ago
      Yanukovych had requested whopping $160 bln. And just guess where a large part of this sum would go. So his requirement looked like extortion, moreover, after a little shock I realized that this money meant "You give me 160 billions, I sell you Ukraine and you can do anything you want there".
  - viach 13y ago
    -- Enlighten us. Just like cLeEOGPw did? Someone says "this is bad". Someone else says "this is good". As simple as that. No arguments in both cases.
    - zxcdw 13y ago
      But you decide to not provide additional information. You knowingly settle for not providing actual arguments to back up your claims. Do you think that these qualities are what Ukrainian people would want their society to be based upon?
      - 13y ago

computer 13y ago

Yeah, because 2 years in prison is a completely reasonable sentence for researching the background of police officers or politicians, i.e. looking into corruption. And 10 years of prison for being at a protest is hardly extreme as well. Or prison for wearing head protection when the police is shooting at you.

Mikeb85 13y ago
> Yeah, because 2 years in prison is a completely reasonable sentence for researching the background of police officers or politicians, i.e. looking into corruption. And 10 years of prison for being at a protest is hardly extreme as well. Or prison for wearing head protection when the police is shooting at you. You've basically proven my point. Step 1: Read the Ukrainian laws. Step 2: Read the laws of your own country. Step 3: Compare.
- IgorPartola 13y ago
  Please stop trolling. There are always places where laws are worse than somewhere else. Just because an unjust law exists somewhere else in the world does not make it less unjust.
  - Mikeb85 13y ago
    Again, the laws in Ukraine were no harsher than what the US or Canada has. Not like we're a terrible place to live...
    - IgorPartola 13y ago
      Again, these laws are unjust everywhere. Also remember that Ukraine does not have "Supreme Court". If the government passes a law that is unjust (talking about the EU treating now), the people have a mandate to protest. That is the checks and balances system at play there. Making protests illegal there means that you remove one of the main checks.
      - 13y ago

1angryhacker 13y ago

I wonder how many people upvoted this without reading primary sources, studying Ukrainian/Russian reports or using translation tools. In fact, I wonder how many people commented on this without reading the laws in their own countries.

PavlovsCat 13y ago

29th november 2013, journalists (along with everyone else) get beaten brutally by storm troopers: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eE6wBzLgEH8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eE6wBzLgEH8 more recently, men in plain clothes with white armbands: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rrl6Uw--nYc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rrl6Uw--nYc Would you like to know more? There's more. But I guess you could always say that there is no context, or that these are just isolated incidents not sanctioned from above, so I'm not sure if I should bother posting more. But I have been following this for like a week, reading and watching a lot, and I would say the situation is actually worse than many people in the west are aware of. And now, for something completely different! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GGaQ5BDNouM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GGaQ5BDNouM

Mikeb85 13y ago
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DxPzWoYjAnY http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DxPzWoYjAnY http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cl_iutoQPvY http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cl_iutoQPvY
- PavlovsCat 13y ago
  Oh, I'm under no delusion about police brutality in the west, here in Germany as well. Doesn't make it okay though, or unworthy of resisting and trying to get things changed.
  - Mikeb85 13y ago
    But should we incite revolution in a country, making things much worse in the process, destroying economies and the unity of a country for such a reason? Revolution always makes things worse before they get better...
    - PavlovsCat 13y ago
      Unity could be restored by the rest of the country joining them, the revolution could be ended by the president resigning. Revolution always makes things worse before they get better... Yes, sadly. And the outcome of this is unclear. But I can't blame them for trying. As they say, better an end with terror than terror without end. They are risking their lives not just out of sheer boredom or greed, but because they have been pushed into a corner and saw no other way out.