7 ms·

i'll be "that guy" and fuck, i'm a gamer. imagine that all this energy, time, effort and cash would be spent on some tangible issue. the revolution in ukraine,

i'll be "that guy" and fuck, i'm a gamer. imagine that all this energy, time, effort and cash would be spent on some tangible issue. the revolution in ukraine, a movement for civil liberties. there are very creative minds at work within EVE, reading the mittani is amazing. those guys would run circles around the organisers of, say, occupy wall street. to put it dramatically and over the top - the world is burning and the brightest minds play games. sort of an inverse ender's game.

kriro 13y ago
There is some scientific evidence that playing games is very beneficial. Somewhat related TED-talk (you can also check out her other talk): http://www.ted.com/talks/jane_mcgonigal_the_game_that_can_give_you_10_extra_years_of_life.html http://www.ted.com/talks/jane_mcgonigal_the_game_that_can_gi...
brokenparser 13y ago
Sssh, that's all part of the plan.
zerohm 13y ago
I've had this thought as well. The good news is that there are millions of creative minds, improving the world, making a dent in the universe. The sad news is that there are billions of people just trying to get by, looking for comfort, looking for distraction. Gaming is just one of many ways people pacify themselves. (not a criticism of gaming, I'm a gamer as well)
Borogravia 13y ago
I tend to agree in principle - all this outlay of effort and time and money for what is, at the end of the day, still a game. But it's the fact that something like EVE still has rules and artificial constraints - as minimal as they are - that makes me wonder if you're not overstating what these people could accomplish, given the same outlay of time and resources. EVE has tons of rules that are there to make sure it's a fun game experience, not because they make sense - forcefields that can withstand literally ANYTHING you throw at them within certain time limits? Completely indestructible space stations? Omnipresent (in hisec, anyway) police patrols that can't be avoided or destroyed? People like the Mittani are clever, unquestionably - but they're mostly successful because they've learned the rules of EVE better than anyone else, and they put in the time and resources to exploit their advantage. Real life is hardly so accommodating. Plus, when the point of the game is awesome space battles, it's easy enough to find supporters for a giant war. It also probably helps that you can't actually die. At any rate - like I said, I agree that the amount of blood and treasure spent on EVE is kind of mind-boggling, I'm just not terribly convinced that somebody like the Mittani is an Ender Wiggin being tragically wasted on a computer game. I'm not hating on his undeniably impressive in-game accomplishments, just being skeptical.
alex_c 13y ago
Some people do both - in the most literal sense. One of the top Eve players was killed in the Benghazi attack in Libya in 2012. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sean_Smith_(diplomat) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sean_Smith_(diplomat)
- mcguire 13y ago
  I'm not sure; is the fact that someone did both better or worse, given that most of the "top", all-in players aren't?
- nhayden 13y ago
  This guy was nowhere near one of the top players in Eve. He was a pretty normal player.
  - sanswork 13y ago
    He was pretty much one of the most respected diplomats in game and head diplomat for at the time the largest organization in the game. That definitely puts him in the top group as far as players go in a game where ability to 1v1 isn't the only way to win.
  - jff 13y ago
    Shoot blues, tell Vile Rat.
  - busterarm 13y ago
    You clearly don't have a clue. "Pretty normal players" don't get into the CSM. He was pretty much as exceptional in-game as he was out-of-game.
  - Qworg 13y ago
    Vile Rat was an exceptional diplomat and a key part of Goonfleet/Goonswarm. He is missed by all who interacted with him.
Cthulhu_ 13y ago
I don't know, I like to think Eve has two skill trees, two progression levels. On the one side you have the in-game skills, spaceship command and weapon skills, that kinda thing. But those only get you so far; the other skills are ones you acquire IRL, things like fleet command, logistics, communications skills, organizational skills, etcetera. Those can be used or applied IRL. I like to think. Also, playing video games or other kinds of entertainment has a role in life. Sure, that energy could be applied to other, greater goods, but the fact of the matter is, nearly nobody has that kind of infinite energy supply, that kind of motivation, etc. There's a few that seem to do, which turn into people's role models - but those are the outliers. You can strive to be like those, but in reality, you'll just burn yourself out. Relaxation has its role in life. Always has, too; sure, cavemen could be out hunting more food instead of sit around in their caves sharing stories of their ancestors, but they didn't. To name a random example.
TeMPOraL 13y ago
> to put it dramatically and over the top - the world is burning and the brightest minds play games. sort of an inverse ender's game. Well, you can look at the games like EVE as a big social simulations - they're sandboxed worlds very much resembling the real one, but they iterate faster and you (i.e. the authors) can alter the constrains and see what happens. I think MMOs should be studied in greater detail. People wasting time is a sad thing, but failure to learn from any good data that comes out of it is also sad.
Dirlewanger 13y ago
I'm still awaiting a startup to gamify the political process and getting involved with civic duty. Sadly only then would we see people give a shit about politics.
lifeformed 13y ago
Yes, if instead of coding trivial web apps we all became doctors, the world would be a better place, right? Creativity and talent aren't fungible resources that you can just decide to apply to whatever is most noble. If you put a top level EVE player in charge of Occupy Wall Street instead, do you really think he'd have the passion and interest to do as good of a job as he does in EVE? People are good at what they like doing, and there's no reason to be bothered over the fact that they aren't passionate about what you think they should be doing.
- na85 13y ago
  I know you're being facetious but the world actually would be a better place. Refugees from war torn regions need medical care, not yet another JavaScript framework.
  - mason240 13y ago
    I can't spent 4 hours every Saturday tending to the wounded in Syria like I can with maintaining my side projects.
    - na85 13y ago
      You could if you chose to do so, but that's a straw man. Refugee health doesn't happen solely in Syria. There are Refugee Health Centres in most major cities, and refugee health is only a small facet of medicine, and medicine is only a small subset of activities that can make the world a better place. Writing a better javascript framework will not make the world a better place.
      - bjelkeman-again 13y ago
        Great open source software has in fact helped our organisation build apps and services, which supports making the world a better place. I wouldn't be quite as negative as that. And you can't work all the time. It sucks the creativity out of you. At least for me. So hobbies are important to make the other side function well.
triangleman 13y ago
Borogravia, FYI, you have been hellbanned. No one can read your comments normally.
cgh 13y ago
The world is not burning. We are living in the most peaceful time in human history. A few people playing video games is neither here nor there.
sliverstorm 13y ago
It's a wargame. Think of the origins of chess. Playing an intricate game of strategy/deception/organization/finance can be a form of "practice" for the other things in your life.
10feet 13y ago
This reminds of a joke. Guy: "So, how much do you smoke" Girl: "I smoke a pack a day" Guy: "If you smoke a pack a day, that is 365 packs a day, 3650 over 10 years, and at $20 a pack that is $73,000. if you do that for 30 years, that is $219,000. Just think, if you didn't smoke, you could afford a ferrari" Girl: "Do you smoke?" Guy: "No" Girl: "Oh, so where is your ferrari?"
ep103 13y ago
>those guys would run circles around the organizers of, say, occupy wall street I'm a gamer, and I was an organizer of Occupy Wall Street. That you would even compare the difficulty between running a virtual guild in an online video game, to attempting to organize a real world dissident political movement from scratch, boggles my mind. I've done both, but you clearly don't have the slightest clue what you are talking about.

kriro 13y ago

There is some scientific evidence that playing games is very beneficial. Somewhat related TED-talk (you can also check out her other talk): http://www.ted.com/talks/jane_mcgonigal_the_game_that_can_give_you_10_extra_years_of_life.html http://www.ted.com/talks/jane_mcgonigal_the_game_that_can_gi...

brokenparser 13y ago

Sssh, that's all part of the plan.

zerohm 13y ago

I've had this thought as well. The good news is that there are millions of creative minds, improving the world, making a dent in the universe. The sad news is that there are billions of people just trying to get by, looking for comfort, looking for distraction. Gaming is just one of many ways people pacify themselves. (not a criticism of gaming, I'm a gamer as well)

Borogravia 13y ago

I tend to agree in principle - all this outlay of effort and time and money for what is, at the end of the day, still a game. But it's the fact that something like EVE still has rules and artificial constraints - as minimal as they are - that makes me wonder if you're not overstating what these people could accomplish, given the same outlay of time and resources. EVE has tons of rules that are there to make sure it's a fun game experience, not because they make sense - forcefields that can withstand literally ANYTHING you throw at them within certain time limits? Completely indestructible space stations? Omnipresent (in hisec, anyway) police patrols that can't be avoided or destroyed? People like the Mittani are clever, unquestionably - but they're mostly successful because they've learned the rules of EVE better than anyone else, and they put in the time and resources to exploit their advantage. Real life is hardly so accommodating. Plus, when the point of the game is awesome space battles, it's easy enough to find supporters for a giant war. It also probably helps that you can't actually die. At any rate - like I said, I agree that the amount of blood and treasure spent on EVE is kind of mind-boggling, I'm just not terribly convinced that somebody like the Mittani is an Ender Wiggin being tragically wasted on a computer game. I'm not hating on his undeniably impressive in-game accomplishments, just being skeptical.

alex_c 13y ago

Some people do both - in the most literal sense. One of the top Eve players was killed in the Benghazi attack in Libya in 2012. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sean_Smith_(diplomat) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sean_Smith_(diplomat)

mcguire 13y ago
I'm not sure; is the fact that someone did both better or worse, given that most of the "top", all-in players aren't?
nhayden 13y ago
This guy was nowhere near one of the top players in Eve. He was a pretty normal player.
- sanswork 13y ago
  He was pretty much one of the most respected diplomats in game and head diplomat for at the time the largest organization in the game. That definitely puts him in the top group as far as players go in a game where ability to 1v1 isn't the only way to win.
- jff 13y ago
  Shoot blues, tell Vile Rat.
- busterarm 13y ago
  You clearly don't have a clue. "Pretty normal players" don't get into the CSM. He was pretty much as exceptional in-game as he was out-of-game.
- Qworg 13y ago
  Vile Rat was an exceptional diplomat and a key part of Goonfleet/Goonswarm. He is missed by all who interacted with him.

Cthulhu_ 13y ago

I don't know, I like to think Eve has two skill trees, two progression levels. On the one side you have the in-game skills, spaceship command and weapon skills, that kinda thing. But those only get you so far; the other skills are ones you acquire IRL, things like fleet command, logistics, communications skills, organizational skills, etcetera. Those can be used or applied IRL. I like to think. Also, playing video games or other kinds of entertainment has a role in life. Sure, that energy could be applied to other, greater goods, but the fact of the matter is, nearly nobody has that kind of infinite energy supply, that kind of motivation, etc. There's a few that seem to do, which turn into people's role models - but those are the outliers. You can strive to be like those, but in reality, you'll just burn yourself out. Relaxation has its role in life. Always has, too; sure, cavemen could be out hunting more food instead of sit around in their caves sharing stories of their ancestors, but they didn't. To name a random example.

TeMPOraL 13y ago

> to put it dramatically and over the top - the world is burning and the brightest minds play games. sort of an inverse ender's game. Well, you can look at the games like EVE as a big social simulations - they're sandboxed worlds very much resembling the real one, but they iterate faster and you (i.e. the authors) can alter the constrains and see what happens. I think MMOs should be studied in greater detail. People wasting time is a sad thing, but failure to learn from any good data that comes out of it is also sad.

Dirlewanger 13y ago

I'm still awaiting a startup to gamify the political process and getting involved with civic duty. Sadly only then would we see people give a shit about politics.

lifeformed 13y ago

Yes, if instead of coding trivial web apps we all became doctors, the world would be a better place, right? Creativity and talent aren't fungible resources that you can just decide to apply to whatever is most noble. If you put a top level EVE player in charge of Occupy Wall Street instead, do you really think he'd have the passion and interest to do as good of a job as he does in EVE? People are good at what they like doing, and there's no reason to be bothered over the fact that they aren't passionate about what you think they should be doing.

na85 13y ago
I know you're being facetious but the world actually would be a better place. Refugees from war torn regions need medical care, not yet another JavaScript framework.
- mason240 13y ago
  I can't spent 4 hours every Saturday tending to the wounded in Syria like I can with maintaining my side projects.
  - na85 13y ago
    You could if you chose to do so, but that's a straw man. Refugee health doesn't happen solely in Syria. There are Refugee Health Centres in most major cities, and refugee health is only a small facet of medicine, and medicine is only a small subset of activities that can make the world a better place. Writing a better javascript framework will not make the world a better place.
    - bjelkeman-again 13y ago
      Great open source software has in fact helped our organisation build apps and services, which supports making the world a better place. I wouldn't be quite as negative as that. And you can't work all the time. It sucks the creativity out of you. At least for me. So hobbies are important to make the other side function well.

triangleman 13y ago

Borogravia, FYI, you have been hellbanned. No one can read your comments normally.

cgh 13y ago

The world is not burning. We are living in the most peaceful time in human history. A few people playing video games is neither here nor there.

sliverstorm 13y ago

It's a wargame. Think of the origins of chess. Playing an intricate game of strategy/deception/organization/finance can be a form of "practice" for the other things in your life.

10feet 13y ago

This reminds of a joke. Guy: "So, how much do you smoke" Girl: "I smoke a pack a day" Guy: "If you smoke a pack a day, that is 365 packs a day, 3650 over 10 years, and at $20 a pack that is $73,000. if you do that for 30 years, that is $219,000. Just think, if you didn't smoke, you could afford a ferrari" Girl: "Do you smoke?" Guy: "No" Girl: "Oh, so where is your ferrari?"

ep103 13y ago

>those guys would run circles around the organizers of, say, occupy wall street I'm a gamer, and I was an organizer of Occupy Wall Street. That you would even compare the difficulty between running a virtual guild in an online video game, to attempting to organize a real world dissident political movement from scratch, boggles my mind. I've done both, but you clearly don't have the slightest clue what you are talking about.