8 ms·

My view on this subject, which I've also devoted significant thought, is fairly close the authors, but without the whole anticipation/retrospection aspect. Our

My view on this subject, which I've also devoted significant thought, is fairly close the authors, but without the whole anticipation/retrospection aspect. Our perception of the passage of time is, in my opinion, merely a summation of our memorable experiences. Our brain filters out some large percentage of it's input, to keep from being overloaded. It filters out what it's already familiar with. As a kid, you're not familiar with much. A yield sign is interesting, for example, and you notice it. Later, you see a yield sign, and can't even remember you saw it. If you travel to Australia, and the yield sign says "Give Way",you notice it again. That's why travel is so memorable. Your brain filters less when you're in unfamiliar territory filled with new perceptions. As we get older, unfamiliar things and new perceptions are fewer and fewer, so we're getting less input per unit time. Thus it seems that time is passing faster. My own philosophy, which I often forget to follow, is to optimize my perceived lifespan by doing as many unfamiliar things as possible. Unfortunately, sometimes I just want to get a hamburger instead.

thorax 17y ago
This is exactly what I feel, too, so I deleted my early comment because you summarize it so well. It feels like memory "diff" sizes more than anything else. As you get older fewer things change versus what you've experienced before, so fewer memories take root in that duration of time versus youth. And the memory samples are the tickrate by which we sense the passing of time. I think there may be a minor biological element to this, too. Because of this reduced need to remember new things rapidly, our brain optimizes in other areas and it can be more difficult to retain those things when you need to do so.
andreyf 17y ago
Yuk, why is everyone suggesting say-so theories without any suggestions for testing them? Truth isn't truth if it isn't falsifiable. Instead, how about: In hindsight, length of time is perceived as change in world view. The more your mental state has changed in a given period of time, the longer it seems. The reason the decade from 5 to 15 seem so much longer than 55 to 65 is because of the drastic changes in your world view that occur during childhood. It's the same reason not a lot of 5 year olds are friends with 15 year olds, yet I imagine most 55 year olds can be good friends with most 65 year olds. This hypothesis would predict several micro and macro phenomena which are testable: For the micro scale, two groups of subjects are placed into an environment with no way of tracking time (no windows, no clocks) for a month. The control group is provided with books/TV shows/news programmes of their choice, asked to pick ones that they've read/seen and enjoy. The test group is asked to pick books/programmes they think they'll enjoy, but have never read or seen. After about a week, notable events are planned - maybe the light bulb burns out, or the sheets are changed to ones which are bright red, or maybe the food in the cafeteria changes. At the end of the month, the person is asked to estimate the amount of time that passed between certain events. If the hypothesis is correct, the control group should perceive less time having passed between the events compared to the test group. For the macro scale, my theory would predict people with monotonous, repetitive, jobs to experience the effects of "time passes faster with aging" more than those which expose them to new phenomena. So a Java-only career engineer will experience the effect more than someone who spends time learning new languages.
- eds 17y ago
  Truth isn't truth if it isn't falsifiable. Quite a claim. Is it falsifiable?
  - rms 17y ago
    Sounds damn close to undecidable.
- dmm 17y ago
  >> Truth isn't truth if it isn't falsifiable A truth that isn't falsifiable isn't useful.
  - DougWebb 17y ago
    I disagree. If you know that something is true, but can't really prove that it is true, you can still use the assumed truth to guide you. For example, I believe that Barak Obama is an honorable man. I can't prove it, but I believe it strongly enough to use that 'truth' to guide my voting decision. I'm playing with the definition of 'useful' here, using a much less rigorous meaning than you probably intended. But even scientific frameworks start with axioms that are unprovable but accepted as true. Those are useful truths which the rest of the framework is built upon.
    - dmm 17y ago
      Honor is falsifiable, to the degree is can be defined. An honorable person acts differently that a dishonorable one. Just because I say something is falsifiable doesn't mean I'm asserting I can prove it. It just means that it is meaningful to prove it. For example, I cannot prove that everyone in china is right handed, but that is certainly a falsifiable idea. One could go to china and ask each person: impossible, but meaningful. An example of an idea that is not falsifiable is that my garage is inhabited by undetectable dragons. What use is this idea? What use is it to speak of things which cannot in any way be detected?
      - sofal 17y ago
asimjalis 17y ago
Oddly this happens to me with websites like HN as well. Initially everything is new and interesting. But after a while I begin to see broader categories and new articles seem to fall into these unmemorable bins. It would be interesting if there was an aggregator that was always renewing itself.
- jacquesm 17y ago
  working on exactly that...
ojbyrne 17y ago
Indeed. For me it was very memorable the first time I saw "Don't Block The Box" - because I heard the phrase on The Sopranos, and I saw it for the first time in Spain (i.e. in Spanish). And I was old. Also rumble strips. I remember the first time I encountered them (trying to cross a median in Madison, Wisconsin). Now not very memorable. Realizing that time isn't actually passing faster, that it's just your perception, helps with dealing with it.
jamesbritt 17y ago
'If you travel to Australia, and the yield sign says "Give Way",you notice it again. That's why travel is so memorable. Your brain filters less when you're in unfamiliar territory filled with new perceptions.' Driving to someplace new always seems longer than the ride back home. The really odd thing I've noticed about travel is that each day I'm away feels full, and time goes by more slowly, but the minute I'm back home, wham, it feels like I had just left. How can you keep that feeling of having had richer experiences and fuller days once back from a trip?
- etal 17y ago
  Try duplicating something you liked about the place you just visited. I cook, and I had plenty of new ideas to try out after visiting Barcelona, for example. Sharing a session of chips, olives and beer before dinner was also nice. The routine slips after a while, but intentionally doing something different after you get back softens the wham.
  - jamesbritt 17y ago
    Interesting idea. Thanks.
quizbiz 17y ago
So how do we remind ourselves to appreciate the usual and not just the unusual?
Luc 17y ago
Sounds like Alison Gopnik's 'What I believe but cannot prove' contribution: http://www.edge.org/q2005/q05_9.html#gopnik http://www.edge.org/q2005/q05_9.html#gopnik
electromagnetic 17y ago
I agree, our brain collects memories and filters a lot of the 'same of' into one category. We do, technically, remember nearly everything, but the memories are so similar they all end up running off the same neurones as a sort of space saving. Essentially once we've used a memory so many times it becomes a 'template' and instead of having 5,000 near-identical memories, we have 1 template and 5,000 name/place changes to it to save space. However, this process likely has a much grander function than we realise. As we age, our life becomes increasingly routine. We all make beds, shower, cook, eat, do laundry, commute, work and sleep, they take up the majority of our days and will be repeated thousands of times. A child however likely only has shower, school, eat and sleep, their free time per day is probably near 8 hours, where as an adult likely has 1-2 hours of free time per average weekday. If the majority of your day is taken up by a routine, it will quickly become compressed memories so the day may be long, but the year collapses into 2 hour increments of unique activity (supposing you don't spend them watching reruns on TV). I remember first coming to Canada (I was born in the UK) and when driving on the highway I noticed a "Wrong Way" sign on the back of the signs on the opposite side of the road. Not only was it a unique sight to me, as in the UK no one would think to do that, but I found it highly ironic as Canada's neighbours (the US) drive on the same side of the road, but the UK whose neighbours all drive on the opposite side of the road doesn't have it. Now I've been in Canada for several years, I never notice the signs, and even though I'm going on a roadtrip later this week, I doubt I'll notice one of those 'wrong way' signs the entire trip. However, personally I have witnessed my years getting relatively shorter, but since getting a job as a writer at 17 I've managed to fill a lot of my time with uniqueness. The act of writing largely disappears, but the memories surrounding it appear to be strongly attached to what I've written and I still haven't lost the memories of even my earliest writings. I suppose I haven't found a way to extend my perceived lifespan, but I believe I stumbled my way into producing a strong 'lifeline' (if you will) that I've attached many lesser memories onto.

thorax 17y ago

This is exactly what I feel, too, so I deleted my early comment because you summarize it so well. It feels like memory "diff" sizes more than anything else. As you get older fewer things change versus what you've experienced before, so fewer memories take root in that duration of time versus youth. And the memory samples are the tickrate by which we sense the passing of time. I think there may be a minor biological element to this, too. Because of this reduced need to remember new things rapidly, our brain optimizes in other areas and it can be more difficult to retain those things when you need to do so.

andreyf 17y ago

Yuk, why is everyone suggesting say-so theories without any suggestions for testing them? Truth isn't truth if it isn't falsifiable. Instead, how about: In hindsight, length of time is perceived as change in world view. The more your mental state has changed in a given period of time, the longer it seems. The reason the decade from 5 to 15 seem so much longer than 55 to 65 is because of the drastic changes in your world view that occur during childhood. It's the same reason not a lot of 5 year olds are friends with 15 year olds, yet I imagine most 55 year olds can be good friends with most 65 year olds. This hypothesis would predict several micro and macro phenomena which are testable: For the micro scale, two groups of subjects are placed into an environment with no way of tracking time (no windows, no clocks) for a month. The control group is provided with books/TV shows/news programmes of their choice, asked to pick ones that they've read/seen and enjoy. The test group is asked to pick books/programmes they think they'll enjoy, but have never read or seen. After about a week, notable events are planned - maybe the light bulb burns out, or the sheets are changed to ones which are bright red, or maybe the food in the cafeteria changes. At the end of the month, the person is asked to estimate the amount of time that passed between certain events. If the hypothesis is correct, the control group should perceive less time having passed between the events compared to the test group. For the macro scale, my theory would predict people with monotonous, repetitive, jobs to experience the effects of "time passes faster with aging" more than those which expose them to new phenomena. So a Java-only career engineer will experience the effect more than someone who spends time learning new languages.

eds 17y ago
Truth isn't truth if it isn't falsifiable. Quite a claim. Is it falsifiable?
- rms 17y ago
  Sounds damn close to undecidable.
dmm 17y ago
>> Truth isn't truth if it isn't falsifiable A truth that isn't falsifiable isn't useful.
- DougWebb 17y ago
  I disagree. If you know that something is true, but can't really prove that it is true, you can still use the assumed truth to guide you. For example, I believe that Barak Obama is an honorable man. I can't prove it, but I believe it strongly enough to use that 'truth' to guide my voting decision. I'm playing with the definition of 'useful' here, using a much less rigorous meaning than you probably intended. But even scientific frameworks start with axioms that are unprovable but accepted as true. Those are useful truths which the rest of the framework is built upon.
  - dmm 17y ago
    Honor is falsifiable, to the degree is can be defined. An honorable person acts differently that a dishonorable one. Just because I say something is falsifiable doesn't mean I'm asserting I can prove it. It just means that it is meaningful to prove it. For example, I cannot prove that everyone in china is right handed, but that is certainly a falsifiable idea. One could go to china and ask each person: impossible, but meaningful. An example of an idea that is not falsifiable is that my garage is inhabited by undetectable dragons. What use is this idea? What use is it to speak of things which cannot in any way be detected?
    - sofal 17y ago

asimjalis 17y ago

Oddly this happens to me with websites like HN as well. Initially everything is new and interesting. But after a while I begin to see broader categories and new articles seem to fall into these unmemorable bins. It would be interesting if there was an aggregator that was always renewing itself.

jacquesm 17y ago
working on exactly that...

ojbyrne 17y ago

Indeed. For me it was very memorable the first time I saw "Don't Block The Box" - because I heard the phrase on The Sopranos, and I saw it for the first time in Spain (i.e. in Spanish). And I was old. Also rumble strips. I remember the first time I encountered them (trying to cross a median in Madison, Wisconsin). Now not very memorable. Realizing that time isn't actually passing faster, that it's just your perception, helps with dealing with it.

jamesbritt 17y ago

'If you travel to Australia, and the yield sign says "Give Way",you notice it again. That's why travel is so memorable. Your brain filters less when you're in unfamiliar territory filled with new perceptions.' Driving to someplace new always seems longer than the ride back home. The really odd thing I've noticed about travel is that each day I'm away feels full, and time goes by more slowly, but the minute I'm back home, wham, it feels like I had just left. How can you keep that feeling of having had richer experiences and fuller days once back from a trip?

etal 17y ago
Try duplicating something you liked about the place you just visited. I cook, and I had plenty of new ideas to try out after visiting Barcelona, for example. Sharing a session of chips, olives and beer before dinner was also nice. The routine slips after a while, but intentionally doing something different after you get back softens the wham.
- jamesbritt 17y ago
  Interesting idea. Thanks.

quizbiz 17y ago

So how do we remind ourselves to appreciate the usual and not just the unusual?

Luc 17y ago

Sounds like Alison Gopnik's 'What I believe but cannot prove' contribution: http://www.edge.org/q2005/q05_9.html#gopnik http://www.edge.org/q2005/q05_9.html#gopnik

electromagnetic 17y ago

I agree, our brain collects memories and filters a lot of the 'same of' into one category. We do, technically, remember nearly everything, but the memories are so similar they all end up running off the same neurones as a sort of space saving. Essentially once we've used a memory so many times it becomes a 'template' and instead of having 5,000 near-identical memories, we have 1 template and 5,000 name/place changes to it to save space. However, this process likely has a much grander function than we realise. As we age, our life becomes increasingly routine. We all make beds, shower, cook, eat, do laundry, commute, work and sleep, they take up the majority of our days and will be repeated thousands of times. A child however likely only has shower, school, eat and sleep, their free time per day is probably near 8 hours, where as an adult likely has 1-2 hours of free time per average weekday. If the majority of your day is taken up by a routine, it will quickly become compressed memories so the day may be long, but the year collapses into 2 hour increments of unique activity (supposing you don't spend them watching reruns on TV). I remember first coming to Canada (I was born in the UK) and when driving on the highway I noticed a "Wrong Way" sign on the back of the signs on the opposite side of the road. Not only was it a unique sight to me, as in the UK no one would think to do that, but I found it highly ironic as Canada's neighbours (the US) drive on the same side of the road, but the UK whose neighbours all drive on the opposite side of the road doesn't have it. Now I've been in Canada for several years, I never notice the signs, and even though I'm going on a roadtrip later this week, I doubt I'll notice one of those 'wrong way' signs the entire trip. However, personally I have witnessed my years getting relatively shorter, but since getting a job as a writer at 17 I've managed to fill a lot of my time with uniqueness. The act of writing largely disappears, but the memories surrounding it appear to be strongly attached to what I've written and I still haven't lost the memories of even my earliest writings. I suppose I haven't found a way to extend my perceived lifespan, but I believe I stumbled my way into producing a strong 'lifeline' (if you will) that I've attached many lesser memories onto.