3 ms·

As an American, this looks like a short list of companies to boycott. I don't want anything to do with companies trying to get out of paying their fair share of

As an American, this looks like a short list of companies to boycott. I don't want anything to do with companies trying to get out of paying their fair share of taxes in the US.

joelrunyon 13y ago
I never understood this. They're trying to pay less tax - they're doing it legally & as far as we know not "evading" anything. You do the same thing on your tax returns to pay as little tax as possible (or get as big a refund as possible). Why is it worse when a corporation does it?
- _delirium 13y ago
  I don't evade taxes by setting up shell persons in various companies. I would look down on someone who did. Actually I do know someone who maintains a fake residence for tax purposes, and I do look down on her (a wealthy heiress who didn't want to pay inheritance taxes).
  - joelrunyon 13y ago
    "Evading" taxes is disingenuous as these are completely legal methods. You're implying they're doing something illegal. Would you rather not have the ability to incorporate your business wherever you like and only be locked down to one country with no other choices?
    - _delirium 13y ago
      No, I'm not implying they're doing something illegal, merely slimy. I would rather people didn't try to avoid paying their fair share to the society they live in. And I won't give such people my business, if I know about it and can help it. They can play the game, and suffering opprobrium for their actions is a valid rule of the game. If you're talking about only what's legal, it's legal for me to blacklist them, blacklist their employees socially, and to encourage others to blacklist them too.
      - maxerickson 13y ago
        In the context of U.S. taxes, 'evasion' and related words have a loaded meaning, where evasion is the word for illegal activities and avoidance is the word for legal activities.
        _delirium 13y ago
        "Avoidance" is not the word used by normal people. That's a word only used by tax-evasion consultants (and their clients) to euphemistically refer to what they're doing, which is gaming loopholes (many of which they have themselves lobbied to have added to the laws).
        maxerickson 13y ago
        Your tone here is frustrating, pointing out that a word has a strong implied meaning doesn't really invite a lecture.
        _delirium 13y ago
        Sure, it implies they're scum! That was intended. I'm not going to correct it by using some newspeak bullshit that no regular humans use, like "tax avoidance". This isn't a corporate prospectus! I have never heard a regular person use the term "tax avoidance strategies", only consultants who are trying to differentiate their brand of tax-evasion (technically legal!) from the other brand of tax-evasion.
        maxerickson 13y ago
        It also implies illegal activity. I didn't mean to ask you to correct your usage, I just meant to point out a potential interpretation of it.
      - joelrunyon 13y ago
        By choosing your words poorly, you actually are implying that they're doing something illegal. It could be useful to read through the following articles: Tax Evasion (illegal) - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tax_evasion http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tax_evasion Tax Avoidance (legal) - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tax_avoidance http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tax_avoidance
  - midas007 13y ago
    One way to reform the tax code quickly is to convince enough people to stop paying taxes until the enough of the special interests are eliminated.
- makhanko 13y ago
  In personal income tax situation it would be an equivalent of paying a fee (bribe) to some 80 year old guy to sign him on as a dependent to claim a deduction your our income tax.
javert 13y ago
"fair share" is a bogus term from folk morality.
- deleted 13y ago
  [deleted]
bequanna 13y ago
If a company is publicly traded, management is legally obligated to act in the best interest of stock holders and do whatever they can to maximize profits/ minimize tax obligations.
- derivagral 13y ago
  Not necessarily true: http://www.europeanfinancialreview.com/?p=6482 http://www.europeanfinancialreview.com/?p=6482
  - bequanna 13y ago
    It seems to me that short-term performance incentives are the problem here, not the idea that management should be maximizing shareholder value. IMO, when they focus on the short term, Management will make decisions that may not be in the best interest of the firm/shareholders in the long term. It is in their individual best interest to prop up Quarterly numbers, etc. to help their stock options/bonus.

As an American, this looks like a short list of companies to boycott. I don't want anything to do with companies trying to get out of paying their fair share of taxes in the US.

joelrunyon 13y ago

I never understood this. They're trying to pay less tax - they're doing it legally & as far as we know not "evading" anything. You do the same thing on your tax returns to pay as little tax as possible (or get as big a refund as possible). Why is it worse when a corporation does it?

_delirium 13y ago
I don't evade taxes by setting up shell persons in various companies. I would look down on someone who did. Actually I do know someone who maintains a fake residence for tax purposes, and I do look down on her (a wealthy heiress who didn't want to pay inheritance taxes).
- joelrunyon 13y ago
  "Evading" taxes is disingenuous as these are completely legal methods. You're implying they're doing something illegal. Would you rather not have the ability to incorporate your business wherever you like and only be locked down to one country with no other choices?
  - _delirium 13y ago
    No, I'm not implying they're doing something illegal, merely slimy. I would rather people didn't try to avoid paying their fair share to the society they live in. And I won't give such people my business, if I know about it and can help it. They can play the game, and suffering opprobrium for their actions is a valid rule of the game. If you're talking about only what's legal, it's legal for me to blacklist them, blacklist their employees socially, and to encourage others to blacklist them too.
    - maxerickson 13y ago
      In the context of U.S. taxes, 'evasion' and related words have a loaded meaning, where evasion is the word for illegal activities and avoidance is the word for legal activities.
      - _delirium 13y ago
        "Avoidance" is not the word used by normal people. That's a word only used by tax-evasion consultants (and their clients) to euphemistically refer to what they're doing, which is gaming loopholes (many of which they have themselves lobbied to have added to the laws).
        maxerickson 13y ago
        Your tone here is frustrating, pointing out that a word has a strong implied meaning doesn't really invite a lecture.
        _delirium 13y ago
        Sure, it implies they're scum! That was intended. I'm not going to correct it by using some newspeak bullshit that no regular humans use, like "tax avoidance". This isn't a corporate prospectus! I have never heard a regular person use the term "tax avoidance strategies", only consultants who are trying to differentiate their brand of tax-evasion (technically legal!) from the other brand of tax-evasion.
        maxerickson 13y ago
        It also implies illegal activity. I didn't mean to ask you to correct your usage, I just meant to point out a potential interpretation of it.
    - joelrunyon 13y ago
      By choosing your words poorly, you actually are implying that they're doing something illegal. It could be useful to read through the following articles: Tax Evasion (illegal) - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tax_evasion http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tax_evasion Tax Avoidance (legal) - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tax_avoidance http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tax_avoidance
- midas007 13y ago
  One way to reform the tax code quickly is to convince enough people to stop paying taxes until the enough of the special interests are eliminated.
makhanko 13y ago
In personal income tax situation it would be an equivalent of paying a fee (bribe) to some 80 year old guy to sign him on as a dependent to claim a deduction your our income tax.

javert 13y ago

"fair share" is a bogus term from folk morality.

deleted 13y ago
[deleted]

bequanna 13y ago

If a company is publicly traded, management is legally obligated to act in the best interest of stock holders and do whatever they can to maximize profits/ minimize tax obligations.

derivagral 13y ago
Not necessarily true: http://www.europeanfinancialreview.com/?p=6482 http://www.europeanfinancialreview.com/?p=6482
- bequanna 13y ago
  It seems to me that short-term performance incentives are the problem here, not the idea that management should be maximizing shareholder value. IMO, when they focus on the short term, Management will make decisions that may not be in the best interest of the firm/shareholders in the long term. It is in their individual best interest to prop up Quarterly numbers, etc. to help their stock options/bonus.