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That was in 2008. Imagine what else they've been able to jimmy in 6 years! I'm still waiting on the reveal that they've stored geolocational data at regular ti

That was in 2008. Imagine what else they've been able to jimmy in 6 years! I'm still waiting on the reveal that they've stored geolocational data at regular timepoints of every X minutes.

jonknee 13y ago
> I'm still waiting on the reveal that they've stored geolocational data at regular timepoints of every X minutes. Considering Apple did that on your behalf I would be surprised if this was not the case. http://bits.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/04/20/3g-apple-ios-devices-secretly-storing-users-location/ http://bits.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/04/20/3g-apple-ios-device...
- gress 13y ago
  Apple didn't store users location data. Cell tower positrons were cached on iOS devices, and this was turned into a false controversy because sensationalism sells. Citing this piece as if it asserts that Apple collects user location data in the way the parent poster fears the NSA might do is dishonest.
  - jonknee 13y ago
    Apple programmed a feature that cached all location data on a file on the iPhone. GCHQ's linked PowerPoint says "If it's on the phone, we can get it". Ergo, GCHQ and the NSA certainly had access to your cached location data if they wanted it. Maybe Apple intended this to be the case, maybe Apple did not, but the mere fact that the file existed is enough that it most certainly could have been scooped up by spooks.
    - gress 13y ago
      No. "All the location data" was not cached. Only cell tower locations. "Maybe apple intended this to be the case" is baseless innuendo and has no place here. "If it's on the phone, we can get it" has separately been shown only to apply when the agencies have physical access to the device to extract data or implant malware. You seem to want to spread the idea that spies can access the real-time location of your iPhone remotely - which is what the parent post was fearing, but for which there is no evidence. What is your motive here?
      - nitrogen 13y ago
        Cell tower data is sufficient to determine phone location via triangulation. Additionally, spies can get real-time data from the carrier directly, as can law enforcement. The parent comment said nothing about real-time access, but if someone has a remote exploit that gives filesystem access (and if jailbreakers can do it, then the NSA can, too), that location data file would provide a detailed history of the phone's location.
        gress 13y ago
        No. Triangulation requires near-simultaneous signal strength readings from multiple towers at the time the position is to be computed. The cell tower cache you refer to does not contain that kind of data, so the data file des not provide a detailed history of the phones location. This has been shown by the people who investigated the file. An extremely coarse location, to the resolution of cell towers can be obtained from the file, but as we know, that is available to the phone network anyway. The parent comment talks about geolocation data at regular X minute intervals. This file does not provide that. Nor does it provide any information that the NSA can't get via the cell network about any phone. Indeed the network likely can provide triangulation. The link you referenced is nothing but innuendo intended to implicate 'Apple' somehow.
eliasmacpherson 13y ago
I don't know if 5 billion a day translates to the value of regular or X you have in mind, but mathematically - the answer is yes. http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/nsa-tracking-cellphone-locations-worldwide-snowden-documents-show/2013/12/04/5492873a-5cf2-11e3-bc56-c6ca94801fac_story.html http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/nsa-tr...

That was in 2008. Imagine what else they've been able to jimmy in 6 years! I'm still waiting on the reveal that they've stored geolocational data at regular timepoints of every X minutes.

jonknee 13y ago

> I'm still waiting on the reveal that they've stored geolocational data at regular timepoints of every X minutes. Considering Apple did that on your behalf I would be surprised if this was not the case. http://bits.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/04/20/3g-apple-ios-devices-secretly-storing-users-location/ http://bits.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/04/20/3g-apple-ios-device...

gress 13y ago
Apple didn't store users location data. Cell tower positrons were cached on iOS devices, and this was turned into a false controversy because sensationalism sells. Citing this piece as if it asserts that Apple collects user location data in the way the parent poster fears the NSA might do is dishonest.
- jonknee 13y ago
  Apple programmed a feature that cached all location data on a file on the iPhone. GCHQ's linked PowerPoint says "If it's on the phone, we can get it". Ergo, GCHQ and the NSA certainly had access to your cached location data if they wanted it. Maybe Apple intended this to be the case, maybe Apple did not, but the mere fact that the file existed is enough that it most certainly could have been scooped up by spooks.
  - gress 13y ago
    No. "All the location data" was not cached. Only cell tower locations. "Maybe apple intended this to be the case" is baseless innuendo and has no place here. "If it's on the phone, we can get it" has separately been shown only to apply when the agencies have physical access to the device to extract data or implant malware. You seem to want to spread the idea that spies can access the real-time location of your iPhone remotely - which is what the parent post was fearing, but for which there is no evidence. What is your motive here?
    - nitrogen 13y ago
      Cell tower data is sufficient to determine phone location via triangulation. Additionally, spies can get real-time data from the carrier directly, as can law enforcement. The parent comment said nothing about real-time access, but if someone has a remote exploit that gives filesystem access (and if jailbreakers can do it, then the NSA can, too), that location data file would provide a detailed history of the phone's location.
      - gress 13y ago
        No. Triangulation requires near-simultaneous signal strength readings from multiple towers at the time the position is to be computed. The cell tower cache you refer to does not contain that kind of data, so the data file des not provide a detailed history of the phones location. This has been shown by the people who investigated the file. An extremely coarse location, to the resolution of cell towers can be obtained from the file, but as we know, that is available to the phone network anyway. The parent comment talks about geolocation data at regular X minute intervals. This file does not provide that. Nor does it provide any information that the NSA can't get via the cell network about any phone. Indeed the network likely can provide triangulation. The link you referenced is nothing but innuendo intended to implicate 'Apple' somehow.

eliasmacpherson 13y ago

I don't know if 5 billion a day translates to the value of regular or X you have in mind, but mathematically - the answer is yes. http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/nsa-tracking-cellphone-locations-worldwide-snowden-documents-show/2013/12/04/5492873a-5cf2-11e3-bc56-c6ca94801fac_story.html http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/nsa-tr...