5 ms·

If you're going that fast, you'll have to stop every 1-2h to refuel in just about any car, ICE or EV. On the one hand, yeah you might have to stop for a little

by NickM 13y ago

If you're going that fast, you'll have to stop every 1-2h to refuel in just about any car, ICE or EV. On the one hand, yeah you might have to stop for a little longer in a Tesla, but on the other hand you're going to save shitloads of money: driving that fast is massively inefficient, so you're going to spend a lot of cash on fuel in an ICE, whereas the superchargers are free.

masklinn 13y ago
Heh. The BMW 535d mentioned has a 70L tank, and even on worst-case drives (sporty behaviour, not highway), it's quoted (by users) around 15L/100. On standard highway (not unlimited-speed autobahn, euro highway 120~130km/h) it's quoted (again by users) around 7~8L/100. edit: and do note: your 5~10mn refuelling break on a normal car brings you back to full range, on a Model S it's 170 miles not the original 260-ish. [0] http://www.bmwblog.com/2011/03/16/the-diesel-driver-reviews-the-bmw-535d-sedan/ http://www.bmwblog.com/2011/03/16/the-diesel-driver-reviews-...
- rdl 13y ago
  At 160-180 km/h in a rental 116d with winter tires I was actually getting about 6L/100km. I was able to do Berlin to Auschwitz (Poland) on a single tank, with 0.2 tank left over. (Poland technically has speed limits I think, but they weren't enforced) For a combination of high-speed-autobahn and city/etc driving, I was basically refilling for EUR 65 or so every 600-700km. The rental 116d couldn't do >200 km/h, so I'd probably want something a bit bigger, but even a 123d would be a reasonable option. I was thinking 535d just in case I had to have passengers.
  - thrownaway2424 13y ago
    Regrettably the 328d is the smallest diesel BMW bothers to bring to the USA.
    - rdl 13y ago
      Part of that now might be that we went from dirtier diesel than Europe to cleaner (at least, lower sulfur, but I think otherwise cleaner) in the past few years, and have more strict emissions standards. But that shouldn't necessarily hurt the 2.0 diesel.
- NickM 13y ago
  Sporty behavior not on a highway is still going to get better consumption than extremely high speed driving, because wind resistance rises as the square of the velocity. If you double your velocity, then air drag increases by 4x, so if users are quoting 8L/100 on 120-130km/h then you can expect to get about 32L/100 going 250km/h. With a 70L tank at 250km/h you may well exhaust the tank in under an hour. These are worst case numbers though, so if you drive a bit slower, then 1-2 hours between refueling seems like a reasonable estimate.
  - rdl 13y ago
    Actually it doesn't look that bad. http://www.automobile-catalog.com/economy/2014/1900655/bmw_535d.html http://www.automobile-catalog.com/economy/2014/1900655/bmw_5... Fuel consumption: in liter / 100 km Estimated fuel consumption by constant speeds on top gear, steady ride without acceleration or braking, flat concrete or tarmac surface, no wind by 50 km/h (31 mph): 8 l/100 km by 60 km/h (37 mph): 6.8 l/100 km by 70 km/h (44 mph): 6.5 l/100 km by 80 km/h (50 mph): 4.9 l/100 km by 90 km/h (56 mph): 4.9 l/100 km by 100 km/h (62 mph): 4.9 l/100 km by 120 km/h (75 mph): 5.2 l/100 km by 140 km/h (87 mph): 5.6 l/100 km by 160 km/h (100 mph):6 l/100 km by 180 km/h (112 mph):6.5 l/100 km by 200 km/h (124 mph):7 l/100 km by 220 km/h (137 mph):7.6 l/100 km by 240 km/h (149 mph):8.4 l/100 km by 260 km/h (161 mph):9.3 l/100 km Clearly around 200 km/h is where the wind resistance (and gearing) is starting to become a factor, but I think you could probably hit 280 or so without being over 12 l/100km. The other factor is that when I've driven >250 km/h I've gotten tired much faster, as you need to be hyperaware. (I did almost 200mph in a "very nice" Corvette Dubai-Abu Dhabi for about 20 seconds, and could see the fuel dial dropping) 200-250 seems like a reasonable high cruise speed for parts of the Autobahn, though. The smarter option is probably Berlin to Munich/Frankfurt/Prague/etc. by train, of course, but I like having a car.
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- NLips 13y ago
  Heh. 250km/h for 2 hours on a 70 litre diesel tank in a BMW 535 would require > 73% efficiency of the engine, which car engines don't reach. Calculations assume: Coefficient of rolling resistanc) = 0.01 Mass = 1700kg Coefficient of drag = 0.25 Frontal area = 2.2 m^2 ...and those numbers are on the kind side to the car. On the other hand, 150km/h would require < 20% efficiency to last 2 hours. Writing calculations is a bit tiresome, so I'm not going to worry about it unless/until someone provides some calculations producing significantly different numbers.
yaeger 13y ago
>If you're going that fast, you'll have to stop every 1-2h to refuel in just about any car Yeah, no. No way in hell, actually. You think driving 150-200 for 2 hours would drain a 70-80 Liter gas tank? I drive 50 minutes to work each day going that fast, I have an 80 Liter tank and I have to stop for gas once every 5 business days. You can calculate yourself that this equals to a "little" more than 2 hours of net driving time.

by NickM 13y ago

masklinn 13y ago

Heh. The BMW 535d mentioned has a 70L tank, and even on worst-case drives (sporty behaviour, not highway), it's quoted (by users) around 15L/100. On standard highway (not unlimited-speed autobahn, euro highway 120~130km/h) it's quoted (again by users) around 7~8L/100. edit: and do note: your 5~10mn refuelling break on a normal car brings you back to full range, on a Model S it's 170 miles not the original 260-ish. [0] http://www.bmwblog.com/2011/03/16/the-diesel-driver-reviews-the-bmw-535d-sedan/ http://www.bmwblog.com/2011/03/16/the-diesel-driver-reviews-...

rdl 13y ago
At 160-180 km/h in a rental 116d with winter tires I was actually getting about 6L/100km. I was able to do Berlin to Auschwitz (Poland) on a single tank, with 0.2 tank left over. (Poland technically has speed limits I think, but they weren't enforced) For a combination of high-speed-autobahn and city/etc driving, I was basically refilling for EUR 65 or so every 600-700km. The rental 116d couldn't do >200 km/h, so I'd probably want something a bit bigger, but even a 123d would be a reasonable option. I was thinking 535d just in case I had to have passengers.
- thrownaway2424 13y ago
  Regrettably the 328d is the smallest diesel BMW bothers to bring to the USA.
  - rdl 13y ago
    Part of that now might be that we went from dirtier diesel than Europe to cleaner (at least, lower sulfur, but I think otherwise cleaner) in the past few years, and have more strict emissions standards. But that shouldn't necessarily hurt the 2.0 diesel.
NickM 13y ago
Sporty behavior not on a highway is still going to get better consumption than extremely high speed driving, because wind resistance rises as the square of the velocity. If you double your velocity, then air drag increases by 4x, so if users are quoting 8L/100 on 120-130km/h then you can expect to get about 32L/100 going 250km/h. With a 70L tank at 250km/h you may well exhaust the tank in under an hour. These are worst case numbers though, so if you drive a bit slower, then 1-2 hours between refueling seems like a reasonable estimate.
- rdl 13y ago
  Actually it doesn't look that bad. http://www.automobile-catalog.com/economy/2014/1900655/bmw_535d.html http://www.automobile-catalog.com/economy/2014/1900655/bmw_5... Fuel consumption: in liter / 100 km Estimated fuel consumption by constant speeds on top gear, steady ride without acceleration or braking, flat concrete or tarmac surface, no wind by 50 km/h (31 mph): 8 l/100 km by 60 km/h (37 mph): 6.8 l/100 km by 70 km/h (44 mph): 6.5 l/100 km by 80 km/h (50 mph): 4.9 l/100 km by 90 km/h (56 mph): 4.9 l/100 km by 100 km/h (62 mph): 4.9 l/100 km by 120 km/h (75 mph): 5.2 l/100 km by 140 km/h (87 mph): 5.6 l/100 km by 160 km/h (100 mph):6 l/100 km by 180 km/h (112 mph):6.5 l/100 km by 200 km/h (124 mph):7 l/100 km by 220 km/h (137 mph):7.6 l/100 km by 240 km/h (149 mph):8.4 l/100 km by 260 km/h (161 mph):9.3 l/100 km Clearly around 200 km/h is where the wind resistance (and gearing) is starting to become a factor, but I think you could probably hit 280 or so without being over 12 l/100km. The other factor is that when I've driven >250 km/h I've gotten tired much faster, as you need to be hyperaware. (I did almost 200mph in a "very nice" Corvette Dubai-Abu Dhabi for about 20 seconds, and could see the fuel dial dropping) 200-250 seems like a reasonable high cruise speed for parts of the Autobahn, though. The smarter option is probably Berlin to Munich/Frankfurt/Prague/etc. by train, of course, but I like having a car.
  - deleted 13y ago
    [deleted]
  - deleted 13y ago
    [deleted]
  - 13y ago
NLips 13y ago
Heh. 250km/h for 2 hours on a 70 litre diesel tank in a BMW 535 would require > 73% efficiency of the engine, which car engines don't reach. Calculations assume: Coefficient of rolling resistanc) = 0.01 Mass = 1700kg Coefficient of drag = 0.25 Frontal area = 2.2 m^2 ...and those numbers are on the kind side to the car. On the other hand, 150km/h would require < 20% efficiency to last 2 hours. Writing calculations is a bit tiresome, so I'm not going to worry about it unless/until someone provides some calculations producing significantly different numbers.

yaeger 13y ago

>If you're going that fast, you'll have to stop every 1-2h to refuel in just about any car Yeah, no. No way in hell, actually. You think driving 150-200 for 2 hours would drain a 70-80 Liter gas tank? I drive 50 minutes to work each day going that fast, I have an 80 Liter tank and I have to stop for gas once every 5 business days. You can calculate yourself that this equals to a "little" more than 2 hours of net driving time.