6 ms·

I'm curious if I'd want a Model S (top model) or a BMW 535d or other mid-luxury diesel sedan in Germany in a couple years. Around the city, sure, big advantage

by rdl 13y ago

I'm curious if I'd want a Model S (top model) or a BMW 535d or other mid-luxury diesel sedan in Germany in a couple years. Around the city, sure, big advantage to the Tesla. For Autobahn trips at 150-250 km/h, stopping every 1-2h would get old fast, even if every service stop had a supercharger.

alimoeeny 13y ago
Is that within speed limit there? I didn't know that
- kgermino 13y ago
  Many stretches of the federal roads in Germany merely have an 'Advisory limit' with no legal maximum in good weather. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Autobahn http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Autobahn
  - Nrsolis 13y ago
    If this sounds crazy, keep in mind that getting a drivers license in Germany isn't a one-day affair with minimal testing standards like it is in the US. Getting a German driving license is somewhat laborious but the upside is that German drivers are pretty darn safe and have amazing discipline on the road. http://www.amcham.de/services/drivers-license/us-citizens-in-germany.html http://www.amcham.de/services/drivers-license/us-citizens-in...
    - rdl 13y ago
      The nice thing is most US states have reciprocity with Germany, so you don't actually have to take the tests. I noticed a fair number of "bad" (by German standards) drivers on the southern Autobahnen over the past few weeks, but they were mainly non-Germans; I'm 99% sure the drunk guys in the 15 year old Honda were US military, and by the plates, most of the other bad drivers were also not German. So it's not foolproof, but still the standard is far higher, and the roads are well maintained. What I noticed most acutely was the lack of objects-in-road, vs. California. Not sure if that's due to the general lack of pickup trucks, people hauling junk, etc., or due to laws/training/maintenance.
      - x0054 13y ago
        It's also because people in Germany have manners. In California, or the rest of US, people just throw garbage on the side of the road. It's so infuriating! I once saw a guy throw a cigaret pack on the ground literally, and I kid you not, literally 3 feet away from a garbage can. I had to "kindly" insist that he picks it up and disposes of it properly. It's like some people here were raised by fucking wolves or something. I see people throw fast food bags, half way full drink cups, and plastic bags out of their cars on the freeway all the time.
        aryastark 13y ago
        Pretty sure he meant debris, not trash. Stuff that falls off trucks because it hasn't been properly secured. I've had a number of close calls due to large items blocking entire lanes on the freeways.
        rdl 13y ago
        Yeah, I mean like a sofa, bumper, etc. I leave a larger-than-usual amount of space between me and the car in front of me, but in heavy traffic, you can't always evade, particularly if the car in front is a high-clearance truck, and the object clears that car, but not necessarily my normal-height sedan. Within hours of being back in SFBA I'd run over a boot, then another shoe (possibly the boot or another shoe), in separate directions of 101. It struck the front bumper and didn't seem to catch on anything underneath, but I was worried. Roadside trash sucks, too, for different reasons. (I call 911/CHP to report this stuff frequently, on average once a week or more. They send a CHP car or two out to road-break and remove it, or CHP+Caltrans if it's big.)
      - jcurbo 13y ago
        Worth noting that US military that are stationed in Germany must take a test before receiving a US Army Europe license (they run the program for all US military in Germany) in order to drive in Germany. Based on my experience (got there in 2004), the test was not that easy and did require a bit of studying, especially for road signs and the rules at intersections, which are a little bit different than US rules, from what I can remember.
    - deleted 13y ago
      [deleted]
    - snark42 13y ago
      I believe they also require a regular safety check of all vehicles that would determine your car was capable of safely driving at speed on the autobahn.
- run4_too 13y ago
  There is no "speed limit" per se on the Autobahn.
  - dredmorbius 13y ago
    Within specified areas. Inside cities/towns, the limits are often both strictly enforced and dynamic. That is: they change with traffic conditions and are signaled via electronic signboards. Germany also has some horrific auto accidents, though the death rate per 100k population/yr. is less than half that of the US, at 4.4 vs. 10.4. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_traffic-related_death_rate https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_traffic-r...
NickM 13y ago
If you're going that fast, you'll have to stop every 1-2h to refuel in just about any car, ICE or EV. On the one hand, yeah you might have to stop for a little longer in a Tesla, but on the other hand you're going to save shitloads of money: driving that fast is massively inefficient, so you're going to spend a lot of cash on fuel in an ICE, whereas the superchargers are free.
- masklinn 13y ago
  Heh. The BMW 535d mentioned has a 70L tank, and even on worst-case drives (sporty behaviour, not highway), it's quoted (by users) around 15L/100. On standard highway (not unlimited-speed autobahn, euro highway 120~130km/h) it's quoted (again by users) around 7~8L/100. edit: and do note: your 5~10mn refuelling break on a normal car brings you back to full range, on a Model S it's 170 miles not the original 260-ish. [0] http://www.bmwblog.com/2011/03/16/the-diesel-driver-reviews-the-bmw-535d-sedan/ http://www.bmwblog.com/2011/03/16/the-diesel-driver-reviews-...
  - rdl 13y ago
    At 160-180 km/h in a rental 116d with winter tires I was actually getting about 6L/100km. I was able to do Berlin to Auschwitz (Poland) on a single tank, with 0.2 tank left over. (Poland technically has speed limits I think, but they weren't enforced) For a combination of high-speed-autobahn and city/etc driving, I was basically refilling for EUR 65 or so every 600-700km. The rental 116d couldn't do >200 km/h, so I'd probably want something a bit bigger, but even a 123d would be a reasonable option. I was thinking 535d just in case I had to have passengers.
    - thrownaway2424 13y ago
      Regrettably the 328d is the smallest diesel BMW bothers to bring to the USA.
      - rdl 13y ago
        Part of that now might be that we went from dirtier diesel than Europe to cleaner (at least, lower sulfur, but I think otherwise cleaner) in the past few years, and have more strict emissions standards. But that shouldn't necessarily hurt the 2.0 diesel.

by rdl 13y ago

alimoeeny 13y ago

Is that within speed limit there? I didn't know that

kgermino 13y ago
Many stretches of the federal roads in Germany merely have an 'Advisory limit' with no legal maximum in good weather. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Autobahn http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Autobahn
- Nrsolis 13y ago
  If this sounds crazy, keep in mind that getting a drivers license in Germany isn't a one-day affair with minimal testing standards like it is in the US. Getting a German driving license is somewhat laborious but the upside is that German drivers are pretty darn safe and have amazing discipline on the road. http://www.amcham.de/services/drivers-license/us-citizens-in-germany.html http://www.amcham.de/services/drivers-license/us-citizens-in...
  - rdl 13y ago
    The nice thing is most US states have reciprocity with Germany, so you don't actually have to take the tests. I noticed a fair number of "bad" (by German standards) drivers on the southern Autobahnen over the past few weeks, but they were mainly non-Germans; I'm 99% sure the drunk guys in the 15 year old Honda were US military, and by the plates, most of the other bad drivers were also not German. So it's not foolproof, but still the standard is far higher, and the roads are well maintained. What I noticed most acutely was the lack of objects-in-road, vs. California. Not sure if that's due to the general lack of pickup trucks, people hauling junk, etc., or due to laws/training/maintenance.
    - x0054 13y ago
      It's also because people in Germany have manners. In California, or the rest of US, people just throw garbage on the side of the road. It's so infuriating! I once saw a guy throw a cigaret pack on the ground literally, and I kid you not, literally 3 feet away from a garbage can. I had to "kindly" insist that he picks it up and disposes of it properly. It's like some people here were raised by fucking wolves or something. I see people throw fast food bags, half way full drink cups, and plastic bags out of their cars on the freeway all the time.
      - aryastark 13y ago
        Pretty sure he meant debris, not trash. Stuff that falls off trucks because it hasn't been properly secured. I've had a number of close calls due to large items blocking entire lanes on the freeways.
        rdl 13y ago
        Yeah, I mean like a sofa, bumper, etc. I leave a larger-than-usual amount of space between me and the car in front of me, but in heavy traffic, you can't always evade, particularly if the car in front is a high-clearance truck, and the object clears that car, but not necessarily my normal-height sedan. Within hours of being back in SFBA I'd run over a boot, then another shoe (possibly the boot or another shoe), in separate directions of 101. It struck the front bumper and didn't seem to catch on anything underneath, but I was worried. Roadside trash sucks, too, for different reasons. (I call 911/CHP to report this stuff frequently, on average once a week or more. They send a CHP car or two out to road-break and remove it, or CHP+Caltrans if it's big.)
    - jcurbo 13y ago
      Worth noting that US military that are stationed in Germany must take a test before receiving a US Army Europe license (they run the program for all US military in Germany) in order to drive in Germany. Based on my experience (got there in 2004), the test was not that easy and did require a bit of studying, especially for road signs and the rules at intersections, which are a little bit different than US rules, from what I can remember.
  - deleted 13y ago
    [deleted]
  - snark42 13y ago
    I believe they also require a regular safety check of all vehicles that would determine your car was capable of safely driving at speed on the autobahn.
run4_too 13y ago
There is no "speed limit" per se on the Autobahn.
- dredmorbius 13y ago
  Within specified areas. Inside cities/towns, the limits are often both strictly enforced and dynamic. That is: they change with traffic conditions and are signaled via electronic signboards. Germany also has some horrific auto accidents, though the death rate per 100k population/yr. is less than half that of the US, at 4.4 vs. 10.4. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_traffic-related_death_rate https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_traffic-r...

NickM 13y ago

If you're going that fast, you'll have to stop every 1-2h to refuel in just about any car, ICE or EV. On the one hand, yeah you might have to stop for a little longer in a Tesla, but on the other hand you're going to save shitloads of money: driving that fast is massively inefficient, so you're going to spend a lot of cash on fuel in an ICE, whereas the superchargers are free.

masklinn 13y ago
Heh. The BMW 535d mentioned has a 70L tank, and even on worst-case drives (sporty behaviour, not highway), it's quoted (by users) around 15L/100. On standard highway (not unlimited-speed autobahn, euro highway 120~130km/h) it's quoted (again by users) around 7~8L/100. edit: and do note: your 5~10mn refuelling break on a normal car brings you back to full range, on a Model S it's 170 miles not the original 260-ish. [0] http://www.bmwblog.com/2011/03/16/the-diesel-driver-reviews-the-bmw-535d-sedan/ http://www.bmwblog.com/2011/03/16/the-diesel-driver-reviews-...
- rdl 13y ago
  At 160-180 km/h in a rental 116d with winter tires I was actually getting about 6L/100km. I was able to do Berlin to Auschwitz (Poland) on a single tank, with 0.2 tank left over. (Poland technically has speed limits I think, but they weren't enforced) For a combination of high-speed-autobahn and city/etc driving, I was basically refilling for EUR 65 or so every 600-700km. The rental 116d couldn't do >200 km/h, so I'd probably want something a bit bigger, but even a 123d would be a reasonable option. I was thinking 535d just in case I had to have passengers.
  - thrownaway2424 13y ago
    Regrettably the 328d is the smallest diesel BMW bothers to bring to the USA.
    - rdl 13y ago
      Part of that now might be that we went from dirtier diesel than Europe to cleaner (at least, lower sulfur, but I think otherwise cleaner) in the past few years, and have more strict emissions standards. But that shouldn't necessarily hurt the 2.0 diesel.