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That's actually a very well done summary. I have an acquaintance that is Ukrainian and I have been asking her about it. Pretty much what happened so far can be
by arca_vorago 13y ago
That's actually a very well done summary. I have an acquaintance that is Ukrainian and I have been asking her about it. Pretty much what happened so far can be summed up as "The leadership betrayed the Ukrainian people to Russia under pressure from Putin" and both of generally agree that it's too late now to stop, and that the protesters have to be at least partially successful or else it is likely there will be more bloodshed.
Being self designated geopolitics guy though, my curiosity is "Where is the US?" We know they were involved in Georgia in 08, and we know the US has a vested interest in giving the Russians a black eye, so I would think they would be involved somehow, but have not seen as such.
- Demiurge 13y agoI wonder what you'll think if you have another friend who is saying completely the opposite.
- gtaylor 13y agoI can't help but notice you replying to basically everyone with how wrong they are without providing specifics. Can you either provide some substance or find something more constructive to do?
- arca_vorago 13y agoPoint taken, but as a person who tries very hard to not let my filter bubble be too small, I am surprised at the lack of people talking about what I suppose could be considered the North Ukrainian point of view. I did see a few mentions that they would be more aligned to Russia, but haven't seen any in depth reporting from that perspective. Have you seen such?
- Demiurge 13y agoYes, the issue is, this is quiet majority. The subject is contentious enough that people who are not pro EU keep quiet about it, because they don't feel as strongly about it as the 'revolution' people. On one hand, you have people say "the problem is clear, hang Putin, hang Yanukovich! If we join EU we will be transported to Paris!". On the other hand you have people who just think that's unrealistic, but they can't put it in a slogan.
- arca_vorago 13y agoCan you link any of this, please? I am genuinely interested.
- lgieron 13y agoMy guess is that, since Russia is no longer a top global power, this area is not a priority for the US now. Georgia lies in more strategically important (lots of oil around) and fragile region, while saving the Ukraine would be mostly a favor for Poland and rest of EU (not to mention Ukrainians).
- viraptor 13y agoFor many polish people still remembering the war times, effectively sharing a border with Russia again would be a big issue. I haven't been following news in pl for a while, but I'm sure there's a lot of pro-eu-ukraine sentiment present. There was definitely a lot of it during the orange revolution some time ago. Edit: just checked, is not hard to find neutral articles, but all the others are pretty much against the current government
- mbq 13y agoPoland already shares a border with Russia, so it doesn't matter. The support for the revolution seems mostly to come from a sort of post-collonial thinking that Ukrainians will praise Poles as saviours and the former sea-to-sea glory of the Polish Empire will be reinstituted. How naive, sadly.
- viraptor 13y agoWith one barely significant part - yes it does. In most conversations that border is basically ignored. I'm talking about what impression people have about the Ukraine situation. Also, I've honestly never heard the idea of praise to the saviours before. Mostly it's just the memory of Russia and any government control they impose having terrible results. Noone seriously thinks about the Polish Empire anymore. Or at least I have never heard anyone seriously mention it for the last ~3 decades. Not sure where you got it...
- lgieron 13y agoThe Law and Order (PiS) party is effectively about amping our influence in the region, in the spirit of old traditions. See the meddling in Georgia, bullshit acquisition of refinery in Latvia etc.