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Why don't you guys split Ukraine into two parts? The western part (pre-WW2's part of Poland) is pro-western, speaking Ukrainian, the eastern part is mostly inha
by bitL 13y ago
Why don't you guys split Ukraine into two parts? The western part (pre-WW2's part of Poland) is pro-western, speaking Ukrainian, the eastern part is mostly inhabited by Russians that gravitate towards Moscow. Why nobody suggests this solution?
- V-2 13y ago"Why nobody suggests this solution?" - I don't know what your definition of "nobody" is, but eg. Dmytro Tabachnyk did suggest that
- stargazer-3 13y agoWhy don't Americans split the USA into two parts, the red one and the blue one?
- pdwetz 13y agoIt was attempted once before.
- maxmcd 13y agoThe divide between "red" and "blue" is not geographically consistent. The general political views of both groups are similar. They're not in active conflict at the moment.
- panarky 13y agoHere's one way to split the US into two (mostly) contiguous regions. United States of Canada vs. Jesusland: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jesusland_map http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jesusland_map
- hackerboos 13y agoMore than 2 parts: http://www.clevelandleader.com/files/splitus.JPG http://www.clevelandleader.com/files/splitus.JPG
- JonnieCache 13y agoWow. A provocative diagram. Here's the source: http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB123051100709638419 http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB123051100709638419
- gus_massa 13y agoWhy “Alaska goes to Russia” instead of “Alaska goes to Canada”?
- gaius 13y agoThe Confederacy you mean? I seem to recall there was a bit of a problem with that...
- ynniv 13y agoThere are more realistic borders along which the United States might reorganize: http://rocs.hu-berlin.de/projects/borders http://rocs.hu-berlin.de/projects/borders
- wavefunction 13y agoOnly realistic if you don't actually live in the United States. These European projections on how the US could devolve are pretty funny though, and say more about European bias than anything else.
- ynniv 13y agoI'm not sure which part of tracking the physical location of dollar bills you think has a European bias, but if means that much to you the project was completed at Northwestern University. The professor only later moved to a university in Europe. Please use your gray matter a little more before dispatching the fingers.
- wavefunction 13y ago>>gray matter a little more before dispatching the fingers Yet you linked not to the original work but to a German site. I would also point out that assigning physical-proximity as a cultural marker due to the movement of currency is a terrible stand-in for actual cultural similarities. And cultural similarities are what we are concerned with here, if we're discussing the devolution of America based on cultural lines. For instance, the map you provide has Colorado lumped in with Oklahoma, Kansas, and the rest of the Midwest. While these states are proximate physically, the culture between these states is completely different, which is why Colorado has legalized cannabis and OK has a monument on government property to the 10 Commandments. To lump Colorado in with the Midwest just shows how poor the methodology and modeling are. How's that for some gray matter? Is it enough, or do I need more?
- ynniv 13y agoYet you linked not to the original work but to a German site. Don't be ridiculous, one links to the currently maintained version of a project. While these states are proximate physically, the culture between these states is completely different Citation needed. I lived in Colorado for a couple of years, and in my experience there is more similarity than difference between those places. How's that for some gray matter? Is it enough, or do I need more? It's better than commenting on a domain name, but there is no upper bound on insight.
- dragonwriter 13y ago> Why don't Americans split the USA into two parts, the red one and the blue one? Because the "red" and "blue" states are artifacts of winner take all election, most of the country (by states) is actually a pretty similar shade of "purple" (at a lower level, like counties, you've got intensely "red" areas in "blue" states, and vice versa), and also because the partisan leanings aren't all that consistent over time. Was that the intended analogy for the situation in the Ukraine?
- ctdonath 13y agoIf you look at the red/blue split on election precinct levels, you'll see exactly why: the division is very distinct & consistent at the boundary between urban and rural. There is no single clear line (we tried that in the 1860s, didn't go very well), and the geographic (as contrasted with populous) bulk of the so-marked areas sharply disagree with the portrayal. Example: New York is a "dark blue" state, but something like 90% of the land votes "red", noting that the bulk of the population is highly concentrated in a half-dozen cities; Georgia is a "bright red" state, with the city of Atlanta strongly disagreeing. The sharp red/blue division is a waterline surrounding islands of high population; rural folk often do smile at the notion of separating from "blue" areas, but the latter would soon find that severely problematic and will do anything to prevent it.
- solyanyk 13y agoThat's a great idea! In addition, we could also put good guys in charge of everything, and send bad guys to the jail. Also, raise salaries and lower prices. I sense the solution to the Ukrainian crisis is starting to shape!
- hodgesmr 13y agoThis worked so great with Germany...
- viraptor 13y agoWhat would be the alternative in this case? Leaving the country on its own with lots of angry people outside and with embargoes on most trade as a punishment? If that country was going to fail and start an upraising, someone would move in quickly to take it over completely. Sure, it sucked for the east part. West part was doing quite well and still is.
- IgorPartola 13y agoBecause the issue is not west vs east. Ukraine spent lots of time divided this way over the centuries and no it does not work any better than splitting the US into red and blue states.
- viach 13y ago-- Why don't you guys split Ukraine into two parts? It won't blend then.
- dimitar 13y agoI upvoted this comment due to its honesty, but I disagree that Ukraine needs dividing. Let me bring up some points: * Why should apolitical people have their country divided? * Ukraine isn't divided by language, practically everyone can use both to a different extent and there is no miscommunication. The language that you use most of the time doesn't have to match your politics and often doesn't. * ~80% percent of the population identifies as simply as Ukrainian with majorities in both parts of the country. * No part of the country is "mostly inhabited by Russians that gravitate towards Moscow". Even in the Crimea the self-identifying Russians don't have 50% of the population. * The Yes vote in 1991 for Ukrainian independence from the USSR: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Ukr_Referendum_1991.png http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Ukr_Referendum_1991.png * 55% of ethnic Russians supported independence from Russia and they remember, are around 17% of the population. * With the return of Crimean Tatars and Ukrainians from other parts of the USSR and withdrawal of Soviet troops if there was a confirming referendum today if anything the percentage would be bigger. * Otherwise the culture is pretty much common to all Ukrainians. * Religion isn't that different - people actually self-identify as Christian or East Orthodox and the traditions are the same all over the country. Even the Greek-Catholics (10% of population) are really much more Orthodox than Catholic.
- dmytrish 13y agoI agree with all your points with a minor exception: Crimea does have more than 50% Russians[0] - it's the only region that has more Russians than Ukrainians. [0] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crimea#Demographics http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crimea#Demographics
- dimitar 13y agoPoint taken, it appears that in Crimea 58% percent is Russian according to the 2001 census.
- strlen 13y agoIndeed. What I see happening is young and liberal Ukrainians (whethers Russian, Ukranian, Tatar, and others) simply want their state to be like many other European countries: free, prosperous, democratic, but still multi-ethnic. In fact, they're actually asking for surrender of some aspects of national sovereignty by joining the EU.