I don't think that the argument is that ORMs are bad, but that it shouldn't necessarily fall into the scope of a web framework. I think you could reasonably arg

I don't think that the argument is that ORMs are bad, but that it shouldn't necessarily fall into the scope of a web framework. I think you could reasonably argue that the primary task of a web framework is to be a meaningful abstraction layer over http requests and http responses, but on the other hand I can also see why someone would disagree. In some sense you could make the same argument against template rendering systems. Personally, I work a lot with a database setup that is managed primarily through REST and JSON-RPC interfaces, which makes a framework that lacks ORM a perfect fit, and I'd rather use something like Flask than something that sets me up with an ORM library whether I need it or not.