9 ms·

It seems that a majority of these cases were actually consensual, not assault: >Among the substantiated staff-on-inmate cases in 2011, 54 percent were committ

by eurleif 13y ago

It seems that a majority of these cases were actually consensual, not assault: >Among the substantiated staff-on-inmate cases in 2011, 54 percent were committed by women, the report said. From 2009 to 2011, 84 percent of the substantiated staff-on-inmate cases involved a sexual relationship with a female staff member that “appeared to be willing,” compared to 37 percent of the cases involving male staff members during the same time period. Those numbers imply that overall, 62% of substantiated staff-on-inmate cases were actually consensual. The headline seems inaccurate given that. Of course, there are extreme sampling bias issues with this data. I wouldn't draw any conclusions from it at all.

dpeck 13y ago
Consensual may not actually be given the power dynamics involved.
- FrankCastello 13y ago
  True, in fact many states have laws that call it rape, no matter if any consent was given. On the other hand, you have men locked away for decades and willing female guards.
- steve19 13y ago
  I am in no way in favor of staff-inmate relationships, but in most relationships the power dynamic is uneven. For example, in most marriages with children the breadwinner has significantly more power, but that does not make sex an assault.
  - streetnigga 13y ago
    When the bread-winner imprisons his/her partner that is considered a crime. Lets not start with crappy analogies. edit: Bring a response instead of a down-vote. This community's weak point is when discussion is put to the wayside in favor of a quick and easy up or down vote. More to the point: Eff off anonymous down-voters, a prison guard is not a bread winner in a sexual assault relationship. This is just a really bad analogy that shouldn't be given support.
  - tunesmith 13y ago
    Re-read your statement and replace "staff-inmate" with "adult-child" or "fratboy-unconsciousgirl" and see how it sounds. Taking this charitably, I would agree with you that in general, sex might still be consensual even if there is some degree of subjective power imbalance between two people. rockstar-fan. politician-staffmember. However, this does not mean that all power-imbalanced sex is consensual. teacher-underagestudent. undertaker-corpse. (Strange things can happen when you mix up "there exists" and "for all"...)
    - icambron 13y ago
      Indeed. There are actually two things to consider here: * The amount of power imbalance. A husband or wife can always get divorced, a staffer can quit (though we shouldn't trivialize this and it's exactly why sexual harassment laws exist), and a rockstar can go home. It's not, relatively, nearly as big a power delta as the one between a prisoner and those who imprison him. Hard to think of a bigger power difference, actually. * The kind of power. The power being wielded by prison staff is violent coercive power. They can throw the prisoner into solitary or just beat him (or, if the staffer isn't actually a guard, they have access to people who are). In fact, that coercive power is what keeps the prisoner in prison in the first place. Between those two things, it's really hard to see how a staff/inmate relationship can be consensual. "You want to do this, right? You know that being in a position to hurt you is literally my job, right? Oh good."
streetnigga 13y ago
This brings up the question, how can a relationship be considered willing when the person is imprisoned against their will? Let's see the numbers for those released that continue the relationship, call THAT consensual instead. What the article speaks of is sexual assault.
pmorici 13y ago
There is a new Netflix series out called "Orange is the New Black" based on a true life story of a woman who gets sent to prison for being a drug mule for her lesbian lover and only gets caught many years later when she is leading a normal suburban life. At any rate, one of the plot lines is about a relationship between a prison guard and one of the female inmates. It comes up in the course of events that basically any relations between a guard and a prison inmate are considered rape because you can't consent when you are in prison to someone who has power over you. Sort of how a minor can't consent even when another minor is involved. Apparently it is illegal under any circumstance between a guard and inmate as a matter of law in all 50 states as of 2006. http://www.7dvt.com/2013prison-guards-pregnancy-tests-vermont-law-prohibiting-officer-inmate-sex http://www.7dvt.com/2013prison-guards-pregnancy-tests-vermon...
- thaumasiotes 13y ago
  To my knowledge, it is generally true that sexual contact between an inmate and a prison guard is legally rape no matter whether consensual or not. This is a kludge in the law; obviously, female guards falling in love with inmates and sleeping with them are not being "raped" in any conventional sense, and neither are the prisoners (who are the notional victims). However... we definitely do want to criminalize that conduct, and should be punishing it much more than we actually do; those guards are not on our side; they are on the criminal's side and routinely compromise the security of the prison. http://www.washingtonpost.com/local/baltimore-jail-case-depicts-a-corrupt-culture-driven-by-drugs-money-and-sex/2013/05/04/d0cde8a6-b33f-11e2-9a98-4be1688d7d84_story.html http://www.washingtonpost.com/local/baltimore-jail-case-depi...
  - scarmig 13y ago
    There's some small bit of gray area here, but I think most of those situations should still qualify as rape. Prison guards have immense power over inmates. Their decisions can give a prisoner a plush gig or a terrible one; can allow for the prisoner to receive medical care or not; can result in a prisoner being punished severely for an infraction or escape with just a slap on the wrist or even nothing at all. The discretion of prison guards can even determine whether a prisoner will have the opportunity to be raped by another prisoner or not, or determine whether the prisoner ends up the sexual property of a nice owner or a brutal one. In those circumstances, it's incredibly problematic to say that the prisoner had free choice in the matter: it's akin to asking a woman to have sex with you and at the same time off-handedly mentioning how unfortunate it'd be if she made you angry. It's a choice without a real choice. The idea that men cannot be raped while being the penetrator is one that has to go.
blueskin_ 13y ago
Or it's because of the massive sexist cultural bias against female-on-male rape.

by eurleif 13y ago

dpeck 13y ago

Consensual may not actually be given the power dynamics involved.

FrankCastello 13y ago
True, in fact many states have laws that call it rape, no matter if any consent was given. On the other hand, you have men locked away for decades and willing female guards.
steve19 13y ago
I am in no way in favor of staff-inmate relationships, but in most relationships the power dynamic is uneven. For example, in most marriages with children the breadwinner has significantly more power, but that does not make sex an assault.
- streetnigga 13y ago
  When the bread-winner imprisons his/her partner that is considered a crime. Lets not start with crappy analogies. edit: Bring a response instead of a down-vote. This community's weak point is when discussion is put to the wayside in favor of a quick and easy up or down vote. More to the point: Eff off anonymous down-voters, a prison guard is not a bread winner in a sexual assault relationship. This is just a really bad analogy that shouldn't be given support.
- tunesmith 13y ago
  Re-read your statement and replace "staff-inmate" with "adult-child" or "fratboy-unconsciousgirl" and see how it sounds. Taking this charitably, I would agree with you that in general, sex might still be consensual even if there is some degree of subjective power imbalance between two people. rockstar-fan. politician-staffmember. However, this does not mean that all power-imbalanced sex is consensual. teacher-underagestudent. undertaker-corpse. (Strange things can happen when you mix up "there exists" and "for all"...)
  - icambron 13y ago
    Indeed. There are actually two things to consider here: * The amount of power imbalance. A husband or wife can always get divorced, a staffer can quit (though we shouldn't trivialize this and it's exactly why sexual harassment laws exist), and a rockstar can go home. It's not, relatively, nearly as big a power delta as the one between a prisoner and those who imprison him. Hard to think of a bigger power difference, actually. * The kind of power. The power being wielded by prison staff is violent coercive power. They can throw the prisoner into solitary or just beat him (or, if the staffer isn't actually a guard, they have access to people who are). In fact, that coercive power is what keeps the prisoner in prison in the first place. Between those two things, it's really hard to see how a staff/inmate relationship can be consensual. "You want to do this, right? You know that being in a position to hurt you is literally my job, right? Oh good."

streetnigga 13y ago

This brings up the question, how can a relationship be considered willing when the person is imprisoned against their will? Let's see the numbers for those released that continue the relationship, call THAT consensual instead. What the article speaks of is sexual assault.

pmorici 13y ago

There is a new Netflix series out called "Orange is the New Black" based on a true life story of a woman who gets sent to prison for being a drug mule for her lesbian lover and only gets caught many years later when she is leading a normal suburban life. At any rate, one of the plot lines is about a relationship between a prison guard and one of the female inmates. It comes up in the course of events that basically any relations between a guard and a prison inmate are considered rape because you can't consent when you are in prison to someone who has power over you. Sort of how a minor can't consent even when another minor is involved. Apparently it is illegal under any circumstance between a guard and inmate as a matter of law in all 50 states as of 2006. http://www.7dvt.com/2013prison-guards-pregnancy-tests-vermont-law-prohibiting-officer-inmate-sex http://www.7dvt.com/2013prison-guards-pregnancy-tests-vermon...

thaumasiotes 13y ago
To my knowledge, it is generally true that sexual contact between an inmate and a prison guard is legally rape no matter whether consensual or not. This is a kludge in the law; obviously, female guards falling in love with inmates and sleeping with them are not being "raped" in any conventional sense, and neither are the prisoners (who are the notional victims). However... we definitely do want to criminalize that conduct, and should be punishing it much more than we actually do; those guards are not on our side; they are on the criminal's side and routinely compromise the security of the prison. http://www.washingtonpost.com/local/baltimore-jail-case-depicts-a-corrupt-culture-driven-by-drugs-money-and-sex/2013/05/04/d0cde8a6-b33f-11e2-9a98-4be1688d7d84_story.html http://www.washingtonpost.com/local/baltimore-jail-case-depi...
- scarmig 13y ago
  There's some small bit of gray area here, but I think most of those situations should still qualify as rape. Prison guards have immense power over inmates. Their decisions can give a prisoner a plush gig or a terrible one; can allow for the prisoner to receive medical care or not; can result in a prisoner being punished severely for an infraction or escape with just a slap on the wrist or even nothing at all. The discretion of prison guards can even determine whether a prisoner will have the opportunity to be raped by another prisoner or not, or determine whether the prisoner ends up the sexual property of a nice owner or a brutal one. In those circumstances, it's incredibly problematic to say that the prisoner had free choice in the matter: it's akin to asking a woman to have sex with you and at the same time off-handedly mentioning how unfortunate it'd be if she made you angry. It's a choice without a real choice. The idea that men cannot be raped while being the penetrator is one that has to go.

blueskin_ 13y ago

Or it's because of the massive sexist cultural bias against female-on-male rape.