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"...Because the American Dream is dead in too much of America..." We are quickly reaching the point on HN that we are becoming a parody of ourselves. What is t

"...Because the American Dream is dead in too much of America..." We are quickly reaching the point on HN that we are becoming a parody of ourselves. What is this tripe? Why are we consuming it so greedily? Look, the poor in America today are tremendously better off than before. And yes, I find it interesting as a hacker to observe statistical data, I also know enough to know that methodology and meaning count for a hell of a lot here. It's one thing to note relative percentage differences in relative quintile rankings. It's quite another to end your article with this over-the-top emoting. Come now, is it not obvious that the quintiles area completely different now than, say, 40 years ago? Is it not obvious that things like public transportation are probably meaningless when applied to a geographic area this size? How about the fact that the people in, say, rural Florida in 1980 are probably not the same ones that would be there in 2010? Does migration between states play a role? Illegal immigration? Do poor people self-select certain areas? More provocatively, what's the actual movement compared to the movement desired? I love statistics, but far too often we try to beat meaning out of aggregate information that just isn't there. Then we bandy around whatever meaning we've drudged up to support our pet theories. One of the reasons I love startups so much is that to address a market you take statistical data and then test it. That's what we're missing here. We have a lot of hand-waving, correlation, generalizing, and blame. Not so much with the reproducible testable hypotheses. A little more of that and a little less soft, squishy social sciences, please. Otherwise this place is going to start looking like a meeting of the royal astrologers: lots of posturing and invective but very little of value. You guys are consuming this great fluffy social sciences mish-mash and treating it as if it were the same as recent results on the mass of the Higgs-Boson. They're different categories of information. All science is provisional, but the soft sciences are the most provisional of all. Bears remembering.

RodericDay 13y ago
You think HN is becoming a parody... because people are starting to be concerned with income inequality? This whole business about the poor having it better than ever is literally pap produced to assuage the conscience of white collar americans- only slightly more sophisticated than "how can you be miserable if you have a refrigerator?". If you think books like Better Angels of Our Nature, or whatever else informs your idea that we're barreling towards a bright utopia, constitute some sort of vanguard in the Social Sciences you're just intellectually lazy.
- ja30278 13y ago
  Whether it assuages the conscience of white collar Americans or not, the fact is that the poor in America have it pretty good. The average poor person in America is overweight, not starving, and enjoys a standard of living far better than most people in developing countries. I have trouble relating to anyone for whom that isn't a relevant fact in any discussion of poverty. I grew up poor, in the south, and am now comfortably middle class (still in the south). In my experience, the thing that keeps poor people poor is an unwillingness to put long-term success above short-term pleasure. Poor people buy cars they can't afford; they blow off work to go to the club with their friends; they have children young. Many poor people work hard, but very seldom are they working _toward_ anything beyond the next paycheck, or the next beer.
  - RodericDay 13y ago
    to what do you attribute your ability to overcome the trappings that keep your peers down? genetic makeup? a huge chunk of HN directly or indirectly makes their money from advertising. what do you think that industry is about if not fine-tuning the mechanisms that get people to buy stuff that they don't need?

RodericDay 13y ago

You think HN is becoming a parody... because people are starting to be concerned with income inequality? This whole business about the poor having it better than ever is literally pap produced to assuage the conscience of white collar americans- only slightly more sophisticated than "how can you be miserable if you have a refrigerator?". If you think books like Better Angels of Our Nature, or whatever else informs your idea that we're barreling towards a bright utopia, constitute some sort of vanguard in the Social Sciences you're just intellectually lazy.

ja30278 13y ago
Whether it assuages the conscience of white collar Americans or not, the fact is that the poor in America have it pretty good. The average poor person in America is overweight, not starving, and enjoys a standard of living far better than most people in developing countries. I have trouble relating to anyone for whom that isn't a relevant fact in any discussion of poverty. I grew up poor, in the south, and am now comfortably middle class (still in the south). In my experience, the thing that keeps poor people poor is an unwillingness to put long-term success above short-term pleasure. Poor people buy cars they can't afford; they blow off work to go to the club with their friends; they have children young. Many poor people work hard, but very seldom are they working _toward_ anything beyond the next paycheck, or the next beer.
- RodericDay 13y ago
  to what do you attribute your ability to overcome the trappings that keep your peers down? genetic makeup? a huge chunk of HN directly or indirectly makes their money from advertising. what do you think that industry is about if not fine-tuning the mechanisms that get people to buy stuff that they don't need?