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My friend, you are an incredible optimist and I hope this is our future. But history shows that power gained is never relinquished without a vicious struggle.

by FD3SA 13y ago

My friend, you are an incredible optimist and I hope this is our future. But history shows that power gained is never relinquished without a vicious struggle. How do you think a non-violent revolt can succeed in a society where mercenaries keep the peace? Furthermore, what if these mercenaries are autonomous systems which require very few skilled individuals to operate? Surely they would simply work for the highest bidders, and viciously enforce whatever "society" these bidders require. The truth is, going forward, an ever larger percentage of people (specifically their labor) will be deprecated by superior technology (capital). In fact, as technology progresses, most people will become an operating cost in society, as the cost of keeping the majority of people alive will outweigh their total lifetime labor contribution. This is the reality of capital in the technological era. Economics doesn't break down, it just means capital gets more and more of the production pie, and labor gets less. It will be a brave new world, but in no way will it be better than now. The Dark Ages happened, and they can happen again.

dllthomas 13y ago
"But history shows that power gained is never relinquished without a vicious struggle." People say this, but it's not true. Obviously there are countless cases where violent struggle was used, and quite possibly in many of those cases violent struggle was required (maybe even all), but there have clearly been cases of individuals and groups giving up power. Sometimes in pursuit of ideals, sometimes out of fear that violence might otherwise follow.
zackmorris 13y ago
Ya "how do you think a non-violent revolt can succeed in a society where mercenaries keep the peace?" is a good question and I was never sure either until I watched a show on FSTV called "How to Start a Revolution" about Gene Sharp and his book "From Dictatorship to Democracy": http://www.cnn.com/2012/06/23/world/gene-sharp-revolutionary/index.html http://www.cnn.com/2012/06/23/world/gene-sharp-revolutionary... It's hard for me to say what the gist of it is, but if I had to try, it would be that nonviolence is a powerful weapon against totalitarianism because it's covert. If all the people communicate simultaneously online, and there's no leader, and they reach a consensus that they're going to convince the military and police not to stop them (beginning with persuading servicemen in their own families), then nobody stops them on the day they revolt. So the real struggle happens in the weeks and months before the revolution in the hearts and minds of the institutions that prop up those in power. If the revolutionaries find themselves throwing rocks at police on revolt day, then they've probably already lost. Unfortunately we only hear one side of this on mainstream news, specifically to keep us demoralized and in the dark about how nonviolent revolution works. Of course in the western world, we're all democracies already, so we may never have a revolution like this. I guess I'm most concerned about voiceless democracy, where as you said capital trumps humanity, and they subvert us all into working toward their goals instead of ours. I really worry about people being perceived as a "cost" on society, because it frames any argument for the social welfare in a bad light in people's minds. And I totally agree with you that it's getting progressively worse with machines lowering the value of labor. I hope some clever people meditate on what may end up being the problem of our time and think of a way out of this mess!

by FD3SA 13y ago

dllthomas 13y ago

"But history shows that power gained is never relinquished without a vicious struggle." People say this, but it's not true. Obviously there are countless cases where violent struggle was used, and quite possibly in many of those cases violent struggle was required (maybe even all), but there have clearly been cases of individuals and groups giving up power. Sometimes in pursuit of ideals, sometimes out of fear that violence might otherwise follow.

zackmorris 13y ago

Ya "how do you think a non-violent revolt can succeed in a society where mercenaries keep the peace?" is a good question and I was never sure either until I watched a show on FSTV called "How to Start a Revolution" about Gene Sharp and his book "From Dictatorship to Democracy": http://www.cnn.com/2012/06/23/world/gene-sharp-revolutionary/index.html http://www.cnn.com/2012/06/23/world/gene-sharp-revolutionary... It's hard for me to say what the gist of it is, but if I had to try, it would be that nonviolence is a powerful weapon against totalitarianism because it's covert. If all the people communicate simultaneously online, and there's no leader, and they reach a consensus that they're going to convince the military and police not to stop them (beginning with persuading servicemen in their own families), then nobody stops them on the day they revolt. So the real struggle happens in the weeks and months before the revolution in the hearts and minds of the institutions that prop up those in power. If the revolutionaries find themselves throwing rocks at police on revolt day, then they've probably already lost. Unfortunately we only hear one side of this on mainstream news, specifically to keep us demoralized and in the dark about how nonviolent revolution works. Of course in the western world, we're all democracies already, so we may never have a revolution like this. I guess I'm most concerned about voiceless democracy, where as you said capital trumps humanity, and they subvert us all into working toward their goals instead of ours. I really worry about people being perceived as a "cost" on society, because it frames any argument for the social welfare in a bad light in people's minds. And I totally agree with you that it's getting progressively worse with machines lowering the value of labor. I hope some clever people meditate on what may end up being the problem of our time and think of a way out of this mess!