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This is an amazingly low tech revolution. The primary weapons of the protestors are: smoke, flammable liquid, rocks, shields and giant slingshots. These tools c
by hooande 13y ago
This is an amazingly low tech revolution. The primary weapons of the protestors are: smoke, flammable liquid, rocks, shields and giant slingshots. These tools could have been used in the Peloponeasian War as easily as in 2014. It really says something about the character of the revolutionaries that they are willing to fight without modern weapons or equipment. I don't know enough about the Urkaine to asses the merit of their politics, but I am inclined to side with the group that has old women and children pitching in to help with logistics. There aren't just criminals and malcontents. Right or wrong, these people feel strongly about their cause.
The courage these activists are showing is going to do a lot to help accomplish their political goals. Every day that they hold out will increase the volume of their message. When I originally heard about this I thought it was more of a violent uprising. But the protestors are fighting with fireworks and laser pointers. This kind of aggressive non-violence will play better in the media once more people learn about the details. If the number of casualties remains low this could turn into an Eastern European Tahrir Square, with hopefully positive benefits for the whole region.
- IgorPartola 13y agoGun ownership I Ukraine is pretty restrictive: http://www.gunpolicy.org/firearms/region/ukraine http://www.gunpolicy.org/firearms/region/ukraine. Given these events it is probably a good thing otherwise a lot more people would be dead now.
- chmike 13y agoYes but what can we expect from Putin who is obviously behind the political decision to turn their back to europe ?
- gritzko 13y agoPutin is temporarily hobbled by the Olympiad (potential boycott and everything).
- smsm42 13y agoYou are aware of the fact that strict gun laws don't mean no guns? Your own link shows there are 3 million guns in Ukraine. If there's a need, some of them - probably hundreds of them - would find their way to the hostilities. But I'm not sure there is the will to escalate the situation this far. Because then the next step is using the army and heavy weaponry, and that means civil war and massive casualties. No one really wants that to happen.
- IgorPartola 13y agoI do not want to turn this into a gun control debate. You are right, it is best to avoid actual armed conflict. However, having roughly 6.6 guns per 100 people means that guns are rare enough not to be used all the time. In general, the slavic nations do not have a culture of guns and gun violence among civilians (thank goodness), and that's what we are seeing here. Guns being rare means that they are not the first thing you reach for in a riot. By the way, Ukraine has mandatory draft, so most men (women are ineligible for draft) do know how to handle weapons.
- smsm42 13y agoLet me just say that being drafted in soviet-model army and knowing one's way around civilian firearms is not the same thing. But I'm sure even with 6 guns per 100 that means that there could be at least dozens of guns present in the scene. Yet so far we didn't hear any of them firing, which I don't attribute just to luck. But you're right, most of the protestors probably don't own a firearm, and those who may own it probably won't take it there.
- riffraff 13y agoI would suggest that it's more likely the protesters simply do not have interest in killing people. For example,shooting during riots in the '70s in italy was very common even though we do not have a gun culture.
- eitland 13y agoGlad to see the Ukrainians are peaceful. I also grew up in a heavily armed and very peaceful nation and like others I suspect this has more to do with culture than with access to weapons.
- gritzko 13y agoWell, guys constructed a trebuchet, which is in the X-XV century range. Then, Berkut made a counter-attack to destroy it. So, it really worked. Otherwise, it is a war of the nerves mostly.
- x0x0 13y agothat plus bravery and the (correct?) hope that the police and military will basically be unwilling to pull triggers a handful of tanks and people willing to fire on their fellow citizens would probably rout the protests
- us0r 13y agoThe military has refused any involvement (which is probably why he fired the general about a week ago).
- jccooper 13y ago"The courage these activists are showing is going to do a lot to help accomplish their political goals." What are their political goals? The author of this piece seems to say that there are none, other than being generally angry. Even if you know what you're fighting for, it's hard to accomplish; if you don't know what you want, it's rather unlikely you'll get it.
- JumpCrisscross 13y agoForcing snap elections by encouraging defection from Team Yanukovych by the elite, i.e. bureaucrats, the military, and the oligarchs.
- wslh 13y agoMore information here http://mobile.news.com.au/world/what-you-need-to-know-about-the-protests-in-kiev-ukraine/story-fndir2ev-1226808390931 http://mobile.news.com.au/world/what-you-need-to-know-about-...
- guard-of-terra 13y agoThey seem to state that the only reason why euroassociation was cancelled is pressure from Russia. Just wanted to note that there is another reason: he was afraid of damaging economy, especially economy of ukrainian east, which depends on manufacturing which will be disrupted by european goods flowing in.
- dimitar 13y agoThe media both in Russia and West like to play up the East vs. West angle, which I believe is inaccurate. While there are foreign and cultural factors in Ukrainian politics, this is a much more boring story of corruption, mismanagement authoritarianism and human rights abuses of the current rule.
- us0r 13y agoThis is probably the best write up on it: http://www.businessinsider.com/understanding-euromaidan-2014-1 http://www.businessinsider.com/understanding-euromaidan-2014...
- nikolak 13y agoThey also use Molotov cocktails to burn/kill police officers and some of them are using those air(?) guns.
- dmytrish 13y agoNone have been killed with a Molotov cocktail so far.
- nikolak 13y agoTrue, I didn't mean to imply that there have been deadly casualties, but that's the goal of throwing Molotov cocktail on someone. Saying that the protesters aren't using violence is wrong. None have been killed because they have firefighters and fire extinguishers with them, doesn't change the fact that throwing Molotov cocktail into someone's face can, and probably will, kill them.
- TeMPOraL 13y agoI think the goal is probably to scare/deter them and make a piece of ground unpassable for a short while.
- dmytrish 13y agoWe've had two months of peaceful protest at Maidan being ignored politically and assaulted with police. Many activists have been beaten, some of them are dead. After two month of Yanukovych plainly ignoring protests and our opposition ("leaders" of the protest) being impotent, protesters were desperate, so the more radical part started to use the violence against police at Hrushevskogo street. Maidan is still a place for peaceful protest. I don't want to excuse our radical protesters, but the situation was grieve and radical protests succeeded at Yanukovych admitting that he has to do something.
- ItendToDisagree 13y agoI don't think I've ever heard of a Molotov being directed at a person because that isn't what they are useful for. Not to mention the fact that unless you were to hit a shield/helmet you likely wouldn't break the bottle and ignite the contents. They have been primarily used for disabling vehicles and making some ground impassable. It doesn't appear that the wiki even references their use against individuals so much as against vehicles.
- Someone 13y agoLow tech? Partly, but its success, I think, will depend heavily on the night tech of the mobile phone and the internet. If those weren't available, those in power could probably have ended this days ago. And [nitpick], I don't think they had lasers in the Peloponnesian war. Also: what's the rationale for having manholes locked from the inside in a government sector? I can see a reason for locking manhole covers to prevent people from getting out of them to attack nearby targets, but if the lock is on the inside, that wouldn't help, would it?
- raphman 13y agoLocking manhole covers (or welding them shut) prevents assassins from easily placing bombs under them, and makes it harder for people to enter the sewers. Also, manhole covers may be used as weapons or shields.
- TeMPOraL 13y agoOr selling as scrap metal.
- Someone 13y agoAha! That bombs thing does make sense. It wouldn't be that hard to enter the sewers outside that 'government sector', and place a bomb under a manhole cover welded shut, but I guess would-be terrorists would not want to carry a few hundred pounds or so of explosives through the sewers.
- waterlesscloud 13y agoAssuming the sewers are even navigable for a human.
- Someone 13y agoI know little about sewer systems, but if there is a manhole cover, isn't that likely?
- youWontLikeThis 13y ago"This is an amazingly low tech revolution" I don't understand a thing of this paragraph. Are they supposed to throw each other Iphones instead of stones? Should they SMS the authorities to death? Have ever been any other way of revolting for those who have no access to assault rifles?