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And yet, great satire frequently seems to go for shock. See: A Modest Proposal, 1984, quite a few of Mark Twain's short stories, Chaucer, etc.

by ptomato 17y ago

Scriptor 17y ago
This write-up is nowhere near comparable to those works. A Modest Proposal discussed in a frank tone the idea of selling babies as food for money. 1984 showed an ultra-totalitarian state through the eyes of someone used to it. Sure the torture scenes were ruthless, but not "shock" satire. This is something that could've been written up by an angry fourteen year old and simply calls everyone either a dick or a whore. No eloquence, nothing subtle, nothing new.
- ptomato 17y ago
  1984 was certainly "shock" at the time it was written. Since then many of the concepts have simply become so commonplace as to be unremarkable. And I'm certainly not claiming that this is great literature, merely providing counterexamples to the idea that "shock is cheap".
  - scott_s 17y ago
    There's a distinction between the meaning behind what you say, and how you say it. Trying to shock people through your "how" is cheap.
three14 17y ago
That's a different meaning of shock. The shock in A Modest Proposal doesn't read like "I have no self control" or "Look! A drunk in the gutter."
scott_s 17y ago
A Modest Proposal is exactly what I was not talking about.
gruseom 17y ago
This thread is already old, but it just popped into my head that a first-rate example of the above is South Park. They "go for shock" more often and more intensely than just about anyone ever has; even I find their vulgarity hard to take sometimes and my tolerance for this kind of thing is pretty high. But they've produced some of the greatest satire of our time, the kind that (at their best) is so good it can make your jaw drop. So while it's true that satire doesn't have to be like this, much of the best over the centuries has: http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/rabelaisian http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/rabelaisian. And for the record, while I never implied that Zed's parody of Ariel was great or even good satire (merely an attempt at it), yes I am comparing South Park to Rabelais.

And yet, great satire frequently seems to go for shock. See: A Modest Proposal, 1984, quite a few of Mark Twain's short stories, Chaucer, etc.

by ptomato 17y ago

And yet, great satire frequently seems to go for shock. See: A Modest Proposal, 1984, quite a few of Mark Twain's short stories, Chaucer, etc.

Scriptor 17y ago

This write-up is nowhere near comparable to those works. A Modest Proposal discussed in a frank tone the idea of selling babies as food for money. 1984 showed an ultra-totalitarian state through the eyes of someone used to it. Sure the torture scenes were ruthless, but not "shock" satire. This is something that could've been written up by an angry fourteen year old and simply calls everyone either a dick or a whore. No eloquence, nothing subtle, nothing new.

ptomato 17y ago
1984 was certainly "shock" at the time it was written. Since then many of the concepts have simply become so commonplace as to be unremarkable. And I'm certainly not claiming that this is great literature, merely providing counterexamples to the idea that "shock is cheap".
- scott_s 17y ago
  There's a distinction between the meaning behind what you say, and how you say it. Trying to shock people through your "how" is cheap.

three14 17y ago

That's a different meaning of shock. The shock in A Modest Proposal doesn't read like "I have no self control" or "Look! A drunk in the gutter."

scott_s 17y ago

A Modest Proposal is exactly what I was not talking about.

gruseom 17y ago

This thread is already old, but it just popped into my head that a first-rate example of the above is South Park. They "go for shock" more often and more intensely than just about anyone ever has; even I find their vulgarity hard to take sometimes and my tolerance for this kind of thing is pretty high. But they've produced some of the greatest satire of our time, the kind that (at their best) is so good it can make your jaw drop. So while it's true that satire doesn't have to be like this, much of the best over the centuries has: http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/rabelaisian http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/rabelaisian. And for the record, while I never implied that Zed's parody of Ariel was great or even good satire (merely an attempt at it), yes I am comparing South Park to Rabelais.