3 ms·

So the let's suppose the cops answer "You're not detained. You're not free to leave.". What do you do now?

by gst 13y ago

girvo 13y ago
Then you're screwed, cause you're dealing with cops that don't care about the actual law and just want to nail you to the wall.
mbrameld 13y ago
The standard for a detention is that a reasonable person would believe they weren't free to go. So in your hypothetical, the fact that the officer says you're not detained doesn't matter. If he says you're not free to leave then you're detained. From that point, other than identifying yourself, you should not answer any questions and ask to speak with an attorney.
- gst 13y ago
  But that's exactly what happened: 1) He was in handcuffs, so apparently not free to go. 2) Police told him he can't contact a lawyer because he's not arrested. 3) Police forced him to undergo a medical procedure (still, without being "arrested") I'm not sure if "not answering any questions" would have helped the victim in that case.
  - colinbartlett 13y ago
    I suppose that's why they paid him $1.6M.
- jrockway 13y ago
  I'd want to call my insurance company to make sure they cover forced penetration. Nobody wants a high out-of-pocket bill for getting two involuntary enemas and a colonoscopy. Also starts the paper trail for the lawsuit.
  - lingben 13y ago
    3 enemas but who's counting
higherpurpose 13y ago
They seem to be doing that more often lately. I guess you can sue them, but it's still going to be your word against theirs.
Crito 13y ago
I think the typical answer to the question is silence. The cop does not say anything at all, and just pretends that he did not hear the question.
6d0debc071 13y ago
I think I'd have to go along with it, sue for wrongful arrest and so on later. You might get away with fighting back if you could show that they were going to rape you, as in this case. There's some case law that suggests you can resist if the alternative is serious injury or death, as per the rules pertaining to self-defence. But I'd hate to wager my freedom on it - case law isn't always consistently followed and will vary depending on where you are. And really, how can you prove it? You get to court and it's their word against yours, and the first strike against you is that they're in uniform and you're not. # On the other hand, when the alternative is rape... would I rather be dead than raped? Can't say ahead of time. I'd rather be dead than go to jail. If I would rather be dead than raped, then I can fight them, and if I lose the court case I can still kill myself and escape jail that way.
- Crito 13y ago
  > You might get away with fighting back if you could show that they were going to rape you, as in this case. There is an important difference between "get away with it, legally", and "get away with it, without being shot."
nandemo 13y ago
That happened to me after being stopped by the police in Tokyo. They wanted to search my bag, I refused. Since I wasn't a suspect of anything and they had no warrant, they couldn't actually take my bag and search it without my consent. I asked if I was arrested, they said no, I asked if I could then leave, they said no. Eventually they asked for "backup", even though I wasn't offering any physical resistance (I wasn't getting arrested after all), and then there were 5 officers grilling me as to why I was refusing an illegal search. I resisted for over 1 hour, then finally I relented and "consented" to the search.

So the let's suppose the cops answer "You're not detained. You're not free to leave.". What do you do now?

by gst 13y ago

So the let's suppose the cops answer "You're not detained. You're not free to leave.". What do you do now?

girvo 13y ago

Then you're screwed, cause you're dealing with cops that don't care about the actual law and just want to nail you to the wall.

mbrameld 13y ago

The standard for a detention is that a reasonable person would believe they weren't free to go. So in your hypothetical, the fact that the officer says you're not detained doesn't matter. If he says you're not free to leave then you're detained. From that point, other than identifying yourself, you should not answer any questions and ask to speak with an attorney.

gst 13y ago
But that's exactly what happened: 1) He was in handcuffs, so apparently not free to go. 2) Police told him he can't contact a lawyer because he's not arrested. 3) Police forced him to undergo a medical procedure (still, without being "arrested") I'm not sure if "not answering any questions" would have helped the victim in that case.
- colinbartlett 13y ago
  I suppose that's why they paid him $1.6M.
jrockway 13y ago
I'd want to call my insurance company to make sure they cover forced penetration. Nobody wants a high out-of-pocket bill for getting two involuntary enemas and a colonoscopy. Also starts the paper trail for the lawsuit.
- lingben 13y ago
  3 enemas but who's counting

higherpurpose 13y ago

They seem to be doing that more often lately. I guess you can sue them, but it's still going to be your word against theirs.

Crito 13y ago

I think the typical answer to the question is silence. The cop does not say anything at all, and just pretends that he did not hear the question.

6d0debc071 13y ago

I think I'd have to go along with it, sue for wrongful arrest and so on later. You might get away with fighting back if you could show that they were going to rape you, as in this case. There's some case law that suggests you can resist if the alternative is serious injury or death, as per the rules pertaining to self-defence. But I'd hate to wager my freedom on it - case law isn't always consistently followed and will vary depending on where you are. And really, how can you prove it? You get to court and it's their word against yours, and the first strike against you is that they're in uniform and you're not. # On the other hand, when the alternative is rape... would I rather be dead than raped? Can't say ahead of time. I'd rather be dead than go to jail. If I would rather be dead than raped, then I can fight them, and if I lose the court case I can still kill myself and escape jail that way.

Crito 13y ago
> You might get away with fighting back if you could show that they were going to rape you, as in this case. There is an important difference between "get away with it, legally", and "get away with it, without being shot."

nandemo 13y ago

That happened to me after being stopped by the police in Tokyo. They wanted to search my bag, I refused. Since I wasn't a suspect of anything and they had no warrant, they couldn't actually take my bag and search it without my consent. I asked if I was arrested, they said no, I asked if I could then leave, they said no. Eventually they asked for "backup", even though I wasn't offering any physical resistance (I wasn't getting arrested after all), and then there were 5 officers grilling me as to why I was refusing an illegal search. I resisted for over 1 hour, then finally I relented and "consented" to the search.