4 ms·
Not to be too dismissive of the causes of the problem, but I think when you get to problems of this size and complexity there's rarely "a" root cause -- you're
by iigs 17y ago
Not to be too dismissive of the causes of the problem, but I think when you get to problems of this size and complexity there's rarely "a" root cause -- you're either stuck with one phrase low intellectual effort summaries ("greed", "stupid people") or endless finger-pointing and circular reasoning (the crap the cable news channels and talk radio like to fill hour upon hour with).
I'm proceeding by living my life. I took a loss on my house when I sold it, not primarily because of economic concern, but largely because it was time to move elsewhere (having kids etc). I have a manageable debt, mitigation strategies if that debt becomes undesirable, am not against taking on more if it becomes more desirable. My intent is to diversify into markets that may go contrary to the general economy (particularly petroleum).
I don't think anybody knows what to do. The events of the time remind me of yesteryear's disasters -- the pundits don't have anything to say, but the tape is rolling so they're talking.
- nostrademons 17y agoI think that basically was the problem - there were so many things that could go wrong that eventually a bunch of them did, and then enough things went wrong at once that the economy couldn't hold up any more. If you remember back to 2006, there were lots of things wrong with the economy that everybody loved to point out. A housing bubble that was about to pop. A consumer debt bubble and usurious credit card rates. A Web 2.0 Startup bubble with a bunch of dumb ideas. Anemic wage & job growth since the last recession. A derivatives time-bomb. Massive government deficit spending to finance the war on Iraq. High oil prices, partially caused by demand from China and India and partially because of speculation. A large current account deficit, and fears of dollar overvaluation. A student loan bubble where many students take out expensive loans for college and then can't find jobs afterwards. The majority of these doomsaying prophecies turned out to wrong - by my count, the housing bubble, high oil prices, and the derivatives time bomb were right, and everything else either hasn't happened yet (credit cards, student loans, dollar devaluation) or turned out to be quite minor (Web2.0 popping). But just those three were enough to put a serious dent in the economy. The 1930s were similar: people like to blame it on the Fed constricting the money supply, but it was really that, plus the gold standard, plus Smoot-Hawley, plus the Dust Bowl, plus the bursting of the stock market bubble, plus the bursting of the Florida real estate bubble. Any one of those might've been shrugged off, but all of them together was cataclysmic.
- messel 17y agoWe are experiencing a chain of events, all intertwined in the most fundamental way. The way of life we have assumed was sustainable is in fact not so. We can't ignore production. We have to consider balancing incoming and outgoing value. I don't believe we have seen the bottom of the market, but I'm hopeful that the American economy that emerges from our original mess will be much more rational & sustainable. We must collectively recognize the need for long term economic vision or else repeatedly suffer the fickle repercussions of short sighted greed, and delusion. Our nation, all of its industries, all of our people don't exist in a vacuum. Each of our actions and individual productivity in aggregate results in shifts in our economic strength and resiliency.
- byrneseyeview 17y agoI don't remember anyone arguing that a popping Web 2.0 bubble would cause a recession, or even lead to a measurable change in GDP. In fact, GDP might have been higher without that bubble -- more people buying drinks at bars instead of poking on Facebook, or buying CDs rather than listening to Last.fm.
- mtanva 17y ago'Greed' is not intellectual or logical in nature. Its psychological And what about those 'projected returns' figures that never materialised? And what about Earth's limited capacity to sustain unlimited needs? And what about that huge desert in Iraq where once a great civilization flourished? And finally what abt - "There is enough for everyone's need not for everyone's greed - MKG" Intellectuality is not the only angle of looking at things. Try it out with any woman !
- BrentRitterbeck 17y agoGreed is not the cause. The natural result of being greedy would be that one would have avoided all of the mines to begin with. While Boesky committed a serious crime in my eyes, his 1986 speech actually contains some good stuff. "I think greed is healthy. You can be greedy and still feel good about yourself". Greedy people don't like to lose money. It's only when greed is mixed with stupidity and a lack of self-control that it becomes a bad thing.
- mtanva 17y agoIf you have differentiated between greed and need and follow it, then its fine. Problem solved. But the problem is that it doesnt stop at 'a little bit of greed'. Lets have some more! Its not about avoiding mines. We could go about drilling mines on the moon. The point is this - 'Consumerism thats out of control. A need not unlike that of a child and that too which is ever growing (fuelled by ever-growing population). Its about growing up to be true producers - like nature'
- BrentRitterbeck 17y agoThe term "mine" was meant to be "landmine".
- mtanva 17y agoSorry to have misunderstood it. But i think we are talking the same thing. What u call 'a little bit of greed', i call need. And it might be a bit different for everyone, coz only the person will decide how much is enough for him.