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Could you explain how setup is more difficult on a Mac than on Windows? Other than a decent beginner's text editor, everything you mentioned comes pre-installed

by zhemao 13y ago

Could you explain how setup is more difficult on a Mac than on Windows? Other than a decent beginner's text editor, everything you mentioned comes pre-installed on OSX. Trying to install 3rd-party Python libraries on OSX is kind of a pain, but if you're just using the standard library (which will get you pretty far in an intro class). Finding a good text editor for Mac also isn't that difficult. When I've taught beginners on a Mac, I usually just download Textmate.

KC8ZKF 13y ago
Doesn't Emacs and Vim come preinstalled on OS X? Or has that changed with Mavericks?
- zevyoura 13y ago
  Those are exceptionally poor choices for a beginner's class.
  - KC8ZKF 13y ago
    I disagree. Why do you say they are?
    - zevyoura 13y ago
      Because it's a class to learn programming, not a new text editor.
      - KC8ZKF 13y ago
        But they don't know any text editor. They have to learn something.
    - zhemao 13y ago
      Most new students have seen a text editor before (like Notepad or Microsoft word). They are used to things like using the arrow keys for navigation (instead of HJKL), not having to switch modes, and using the mouse to manipulate text. There are plenty of serviceable programmers' text editors which follow these idioms. Better to let students use something familiar so you can focus on the actual subject (programming) and not frustrate them with learning a completely different set of keyboard shortcuts.
      - KC8ZKF 13y ago
        When was the last Emacs that didn't use arrow keys by default? 1987 on a VAX? Ditto with mice and such. And it's modeless. People just ape things they've heard without thinking. Emacs and Vim may not be perfect beginner's editors, but they are much better than just decent.
lhl 13y ago
Yes, I'm interested in hearing about this as well. OS X comes not only w/ Python 2.7, but also easy_install. Getting IPython Notebook up and running is a single command: sudo easy_install ipython[all] Personally, I think IPython Notebook is a fantastic (the best?) tool for teaching Python, and being able to distribute/collect notebooks seems for classrooms seems like an awesome thing. There are plenty of text editors, and if you must go the IDE route, IEP and Light Table are both free and cross platform (among lots of other options).
Derbasti 13y ago
Python itself is no problem, that's true. But even installing simple modules leads to headache. You suddenly need to have XCode installed, and you get compiler errors, and you need to modify your PATH... The lack of binary installers for Python/Mac packages really was an issue for my students.

by zhemao 13y ago

KC8ZKF 13y ago

Doesn't Emacs and Vim come preinstalled on OS X? Or has that changed with Mavericks?

zevyoura 13y ago
Those are exceptionally poor choices for a beginner's class.
- KC8ZKF 13y ago
  I disagree. Why do you say they are?
  - zevyoura 13y ago
    Because it's a class to learn programming, not a new text editor.
    - KC8ZKF 13y ago
      But they don't know any text editor. They have to learn something.
  - zhemao 13y ago
    Most new students have seen a text editor before (like Notepad or Microsoft word). They are used to things like using the arrow keys for navigation (instead of HJKL), not having to switch modes, and using the mouse to manipulate text. There are plenty of serviceable programmers' text editors which follow these idioms. Better to let students use something familiar so you can focus on the actual subject (programming) and not frustrate them with learning a completely different set of keyboard shortcuts.
    - KC8ZKF 13y ago
      When was the last Emacs that didn't use arrow keys by default? 1987 on a VAX? Ditto with mice and such. And it's modeless. People just ape things they've heard without thinking. Emacs and Vim may not be perfect beginner's editors, but they are much better than just decent.

lhl 13y ago

Yes, I'm interested in hearing about this as well. OS X comes not only w/ Python 2.7, but also easy_install. Getting IPython Notebook up and running is a single command: sudo easy_install ipython[all] Personally, I think IPython Notebook is a fantastic (the best?) tool for teaching Python, and being able to distribute/collect notebooks seems for classrooms seems like an awesome thing. There are plenty of text editors, and if you must go the IDE route, IEP and Light Table are both free and cross platform (among lots of other options).

Derbasti 13y ago

Python itself is no problem, that's true. But even installing simple modules leads to headache. You suddenly need to have XCode installed, and you get compiler errors, and you need to modify your PATH... The lack of binary installers for Python/Mac packages really was an issue for my students.