3 ms·

There is a literal parallel (broken crystal/broken glass from bus windows), but the true question is: is the power of the government on the side of the "1%/jews

by rdl 13y ago

There is a literal parallel (broken crystal/broken glass from bus windows), but the true question is: is the power of the government on the side of the "1%/jews" or on the side of the "progressives/Nazis"? Outside of SF city government (which is so ineffective as to not really matter), most government seems solidly on the side of the elites. While many Jews in pre-WW2 Europe had economic power (and many didn't), they didn't generally have political or military power. Consequently, this seems more like (at the extreme) the rise of the communists in Russia, progressive movements in the US in the early-1900s which caused the income tax, massive increase in size of government, and alcohol prohibition, rather than the Nazis.

tomphoolery 13y ago
Well, remember that the Nazi government did not have power for quite some time. It was only when the German government itself could no longer control the populace (remember, humanity was in the middle of a Great Depression, and Germany was hit extra-special-hard due to the world blaming them for WWI), that the Nazis really took hold. Unlike most capitalist nations, the people with all the power in Nazi Germany were those who were more loyal to the Nazi party, not the richest members of the German society. That is of course contrast to the way America works. Until the US government completely collapses, and power falls into the hands of some crazy person, I'm pretty sure we won't have to worry about any kind of "Kristallnacht" taking place.
- anigbrowl 13y ago
  For many WSJ readers, that has already happened - their editorial board is heavily invested in the idea that Obama is just about the worst thing ever to happen to the US.
  - rdl 13y ago
    USG -> Weimar Republic is seeming like a pretty legitimate parallel in a lot of ways; ineffective, etc. More so in 2008; that the world economy seems to have mostly survived makes it much less of a risk, but if China imploded and/or 2008 repeated itself, I would be extra suspicious of someone promoting a State-led program of national renewal.
    - cafard 13y ago
      I would suggest that it seems the more legitimate the less one knows about the Weimar Republic. The US has never been through a catastrophe such as WW I and its immediate aftermath were in Germany; and for all the lively efforts here and there, the US government is generally perceived in the US as the legitimate government, as the Weimar government was not perceived by large portions of the governing classes--the courts and the military, notably.
      - rdl 13y ago
        I don't know as much as I'd like about Weimar; is there a "standard" good book on it in English? I know WW2 and WW1 a lot better, but the Weimar-and-rise-of-Nazis part always falls into the cracks.
        dredmorbius 13y ago
        Standard I'm not so sure. Eric D. Weitz, Weimar Germany covers the period, focusing extensively on the cultural and artistic aspects. http://www.powells.com/biblio/1-9780691157962-0 http://www.powells.com/biblio/1-9780691157962-0 Related, from Powells: http://www.powells.com/subjects/history-and-social-science/europe/germany/weimar-republic/ http://www.powells.com/subjects/history-and-social-science/e...
        cafard 13y ago
        Gordon Craig's history of Germany 1867-1945 is worth reading, not just for its coverage of the Weimar Republic.
      - mjn 13y ago
        The US also doesn't have nearly the problem with paramilitary groups that the Weimar Republic had. Their official control over even the capital was so tenuous that they in effect resorted to setting up their own "pro-government" paramilitary group to counter the left- and right-wing anti-government groups: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reichsbanner_Schwarz-Rot-Gold http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reichsbanner_Schwarz-Rot-Gold
huxley 13y ago
Google Bus issue: a bunch of kids breaking a bus window. Protestors embarrass major corporations into paying inconsequential fee to park their buses on public streets. Kristallnacht: 91 murders, 1000 synagogues burned and 30,000 put in concentration camps.

by rdl 13y ago

tomphoolery 13y ago

Well, remember that the Nazi government did not have power for quite some time. It was only when the German government itself could no longer control the populace (remember, humanity was in the middle of a Great Depression, and Germany was hit extra-special-hard due to the world blaming them for WWI), that the Nazis really took hold. Unlike most capitalist nations, the people with all the power in Nazi Germany were those who were more loyal to the Nazi party, not the richest members of the German society. That is of course contrast to the way America works. Until the US government completely collapses, and power falls into the hands of some crazy person, I'm pretty sure we won't have to worry about any kind of "Kristallnacht" taking place.

anigbrowl 13y ago
For many WSJ readers, that has already happened - their editorial board is heavily invested in the idea that Obama is just about the worst thing ever to happen to the US.
- rdl 13y ago
  USG -> Weimar Republic is seeming like a pretty legitimate parallel in a lot of ways; ineffective, etc. More so in 2008; that the world economy seems to have mostly survived makes it much less of a risk, but if China imploded and/or 2008 repeated itself, I would be extra suspicious of someone promoting a State-led program of national renewal.
  - cafard 13y ago
    I would suggest that it seems the more legitimate the less one knows about the Weimar Republic. The US has never been through a catastrophe such as WW I and its immediate aftermath were in Germany; and for all the lively efforts here and there, the US government is generally perceived in the US as the legitimate government, as the Weimar government was not perceived by large portions of the governing classes--the courts and the military, notably.
    - rdl 13y ago
      I don't know as much as I'd like about Weimar; is there a "standard" good book on it in English? I know WW2 and WW1 a lot better, but the Weimar-and-rise-of-Nazis part always falls into the cracks.
      - dredmorbius 13y ago
        Standard I'm not so sure. Eric D. Weitz, Weimar Germany covers the period, focusing extensively on the cultural and artistic aspects. http://www.powells.com/biblio/1-9780691157962-0 http://www.powells.com/biblio/1-9780691157962-0 Related, from Powells: http://www.powells.com/subjects/history-and-social-science/europe/germany/weimar-republic/ http://www.powells.com/subjects/history-and-social-science/e...
      - cafard 13y ago
        Gordon Craig's history of Germany 1867-1945 is worth reading, not just for its coverage of the Weimar Republic.
    - mjn 13y ago
      The US also doesn't have nearly the problem with paramilitary groups that the Weimar Republic had. Their official control over even the capital was so tenuous that they in effect resorted to setting up their own "pro-government" paramilitary group to counter the left- and right-wing anti-government groups: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reichsbanner_Schwarz-Rot-Gold http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reichsbanner_Schwarz-Rot-Gold

huxley 13y ago

Google Bus issue: a bunch of kids breaking a bus window. Protestors embarrass major corporations into paying inconsequential fee to park their buses on public streets. Kristallnacht: 91 murders, 1000 synagogues burned and 30,000 put in concentration camps.