4 ms·

It wasn't a straightforward interview. It was a subtle form of astroturfing. PR is all about context. They try to dissociate the site from Microsoft (visually)

by neilk 17y ago

It wasn't a straightforward interview. It was a subtle form of astroturfing. PR is all about context. They try to dissociate the site from Microsoft (visually) to imply these are disinterested opinions. And in particular, that there's this cute young emo woman who wanders the halls of Microsoft entranced with the dreamy, rebellious hackers. The subtext, if you're a heterosexual male programmer, is that working for MS gets you the kinds of attention you've always wanted. And that real rebels ought to be working for Microsoft. All absurd, which is why they had to be subtle about it. If the sexual innuendo is said out loud -- as in a parody -- you then realize what's happened. It's debatable whether the tone is HN-appropriate, but I thought it made legitimate points, despite or perhaps because of the crudeness.

cool-RR 17y ago
Will I get downvoted if I'll point out that you can see in the picture here: http://www.microspotting.com/about http://www.microspotting.com/about that she isn't even that hot? In my opinion, if you can't resist the temptation to click that link, you lose your right to downvote it.
- neilk 17y ago
  Well, I downvoted you for making her looks an HN issue. That wasn't the point I was trying to make. I'm sure she's attractive and talented and a bunch of other things besides, and the whole interview is probably entirely honest. But she's playing a role in a script that someone else wrote.
  - BrentRitterbeck 17y ago
    But she's playing a role in a script that someone else wrote. There are many people here interested in entrepreneurship, and part of entrepreneurship is creating a certain image about yourself. The way I read your comment, is that you are criticizing the fact that she is playing a role. How many people here who have started a company are very careful about the image you're creating for your company? Microsoft is no different.
    - LogicHoleFlaw 17y ago
      We all play roles. It's a fundamental part of human interaction. I think the gripe here is that the role is externally and structurally imposed rather than internally motivated.
      - BrentRitterbeck 17y ago
        That's the same as griping over advertising. While I don't know the true motivation of the post, it certainly can be viewed as a form of advertising, advertising for employment within Microsoft. "Hey! Look how great it is to work here. People can achieve things no matter where they come from."
    - gruseom 17y ago
      I don't think people are really criticizing Microsoft for image-mongering as such. I think they're getting nailed for the clumsiness of their recent attempts (like the puke ad) to outsource the development of a happening-new-image that has no connection to who or what they really are, and just sort of plaster it on and hope that anyone will be fooled by it. Sure, corporate images are idealized and sanitized and in that sense false, but the better ones still stem from the underlying reality. Is Google purely benign? Hardly, yet "don't be evil" does express something real in their culture. Are Apple and their users members of a superior race? Hardly, yet they have produced superior designs. Microsoft's problem is that their truly distinctive quality over the years -- their competitive ruthlessness -- doesn't lend itself to positive marketing. A campaign based on something like "We screw people. Hey, it's just business." isn't likely to win favor. Maybe it says something about Microsoft that they have trouble finding a positive image that isn't an obvious marketing concoction.
      - endtime 17y ago
        >a happening-new-image that has no connection to who or what they really are Oh? And what is your justification for that statement? Have you worked there? I have, and I am actually surprised at how cool and fresh some of the stuff MSFT is doing is.
sounddust 17y ago
I think that you're not properly distinguishing between the article and the blog as a whole. Every HN member who read this article saw "microspotting" in the URL and knew that it was associated with Microsoft (or a rabid fan). We took that into account when voting. In any case, no matter how astroturf-y the original article was, it does not justify voting this one up.
hendler 17y ago
Microsoft, in the pursuit of rebuilding their image, needs to lie. MS can not be all things to all people. I'm not trying to sound cynical, but Microsoft doesn't need to worry about actually satisfying what people want. MS only needs to make a profit. That's business, and profit is a very powerful mantra. The response, which is the subject of this thread, get's some things right, some wrong. I don't really care too much. I just love the internet, and the free speech that it enables, encourages the public to respond to the company bullhorn, and have their own voice.
webwright 17y ago
It pains me that this story exists and that your misogynist comment got so many upvotes. Subtle form of astroturfing? It took about 10 seconds and some reading comprehension for me to understand that the site (and the interview) was sponsored by MS. And your subtext? I totally disagree. Just because it's a female writer (with a picture! Oh my!), it implies that she's some sort of developer concubine? WTF? If it was an attractive guy, would you start tossing out gay jokes? If it was an older woman, would you call her a cougar? Or are you suggesting that they hired her because she was cute over more-qualified male candidates? There are 120 zillion stories on what it's like to work at Google, and presumably many of these are launched and shaped by Google PR folks. You could take the same tone towards them: "The subtle implication is that Google people are buried in gourmet food, don't have managers, cash our as zillionaires in a year or two, go kayaking on their lunch hour all the time, and truly spend 20% of their work time on whatever they feel like." Sure there's a goal here-- to show that MS is cooler than most people think it is. Whether that's true or not is subjective (but I know a lot of pretty cool folks who actually LOVE(d) working at Microsoft).
- endtime 17y ago
  I'm working at Microsoft this summer, and it really is a fun place to work, especially compared to Goldman Sachs and AMD (where I've spent previous summers). People work whatever hours they feel like, they have fun (my team has "Scotch Friday" every few weeks, for example), and our boss is extremely bright (and amusing). I haven't worked for Google, so maybe that's even better, I don't know - but from what I've seen so far, there's nothing not to like about working for Microsoft. For what it's worth, just about everyone I've met will openly admit that the company culture was very different 15 years ago, and earned it some (deserved) negative reputation...but that's really not the company I've seen this summer. Anecdotally: I'm working on the Office web apps, and we fully support Firefox and Safari as well as IE.
  - Andys 17y ago
    > the company culture was very different 15 years ago, and earned it some (deserved) negative reputation Market-wise, I perceived Microsoft as kicking ass during the mid 90's with products that were crushing the competition, whereas nowadays I see them as floundering ineffectively. If the workers weren't happy then, but are happy now, how does that fit with my perceptions?

by neilk 17y ago

cool-RR 17y ago

Will I get downvoted if I'll point out that you can see in the picture here: http://www.microspotting.com/about http://www.microspotting.com/about that she isn't even that hot? In my opinion, if you can't resist the temptation to click that link, you lose your right to downvote it.

neilk 17y ago
Well, I downvoted you for making her looks an HN issue. That wasn't the point I was trying to make. I'm sure she's attractive and talented and a bunch of other things besides, and the whole interview is probably entirely honest. But she's playing a role in a script that someone else wrote.
- BrentRitterbeck 17y ago
  But she's playing a role in a script that someone else wrote. There are many people here interested in entrepreneurship, and part of entrepreneurship is creating a certain image about yourself. The way I read your comment, is that you are criticizing the fact that she is playing a role. How many people here who have started a company are very careful about the image you're creating for your company? Microsoft is no different.
  - LogicHoleFlaw 17y ago
    We all play roles. It's a fundamental part of human interaction. I think the gripe here is that the role is externally and structurally imposed rather than internally motivated.
    - BrentRitterbeck 17y ago
      That's the same as griping over advertising. While I don't know the true motivation of the post, it certainly can be viewed as a form of advertising, advertising for employment within Microsoft. "Hey! Look how great it is to work here. People can achieve things no matter where they come from."
  - gruseom 17y ago
    I don't think people are really criticizing Microsoft for image-mongering as such. I think they're getting nailed for the clumsiness of their recent attempts (like the puke ad) to outsource the development of a happening-new-image that has no connection to who or what they really are, and just sort of plaster it on and hope that anyone will be fooled by it. Sure, corporate images are idealized and sanitized and in that sense false, but the better ones still stem from the underlying reality. Is Google purely benign? Hardly, yet "don't be evil" does express something real in their culture. Are Apple and their users members of a superior race? Hardly, yet they have produced superior designs. Microsoft's problem is that their truly distinctive quality over the years -- their competitive ruthlessness -- doesn't lend itself to positive marketing. A campaign based on something like "We screw people. Hey, it's just business." isn't likely to win favor. Maybe it says something about Microsoft that they have trouble finding a positive image that isn't an obvious marketing concoction.
    - endtime 17y ago
      >a happening-new-image that has no connection to who or what they really are Oh? And what is your justification for that statement? Have you worked there? I have, and I am actually surprised at how cool and fresh some of the stuff MSFT is doing is.

sounddust 17y ago

I think that you're not properly distinguishing between the article and the blog as a whole. Every HN member who read this article saw "microspotting" in the URL and knew that it was associated with Microsoft (or a rabid fan). We took that into account when voting. In any case, no matter how astroturf-y the original article was, it does not justify voting this one up.

hendler 17y ago

Microsoft, in the pursuit of rebuilding their image, needs to lie. MS can not be all things to all people. I'm not trying to sound cynical, but Microsoft doesn't need to worry about actually satisfying what people want. MS only needs to make a profit. That's business, and profit is a very powerful mantra. The response, which is the subject of this thread, get's some things right, some wrong. I don't really care too much. I just love the internet, and the free speech that it enables, encourages the public to respond to the company bullhorn, and have their own voice.

webwright 17y ago

It pains me that this story exists and that your misogynist comment got so many upvotes. Subtle form of astroturfing? It took about 10 seconds and some reading comprehension for me to understand that the site (and the interview) was sponsored by MS. And your subtext? I totally disagree. Just because it's a female writer (with a picture! Oh my!), it implies that she's some sort of developer concubine? WTF? If it was an attractive guy, would you start tossing out gay jokes? If it was an older woman, would you call her a cougar? Or are you suggesting that they hired her because she was cute over more-qualified male candidates? There are 120 zillion stories on what it's like to work at Google, and presumably many of these are launched and shaped by Google PR folks. You could take the same tone towards them: "The subtle implication is that Google people are buried in gourmet food, don't have managers, cash our as zillionaires in a year or two, go kayaking on their lunch hour all the time, and truly spend 20% of their work time on whatever they feel like." Sure there's a goal here-- to show that MS is cooler than most people think it is. Whether that's true or not is subjective (but I know a lot of pretty cool folks who actually LOVE(d) working at Microsoft).

endtime 17y ago
I'm working at Microsoft this summer, and it really is a fun place to work, especially compared to Goldman Sachs and AMD (where I've spent previous summers). People work whatever hours they feel like, they have fun (my team has "Scotch Friday" every few weeks, for example), and our boss is extremely bright (and amusing). I haven't worked for Google, so maybe that's even better, I don't know - but from what I've seen so far, there's nothing not to like about working for Microsoft. For what it's worth, just about everyone I've met will openly admit that the company culture was very different 15 years ago, and earned it some (deserved) negative reputation...but that's really not the company I've seen this summer. Anecdotally: I'm working on the Office web apps, and we fully support Firefox and Safari as well as IE.
- Andys 17y ago
  > the company culture was very different 15 years ago, and earned it some (deserved) negative reputation Market-wise, I perceived Microsoft as kicking ass during the mid 90's with products that were crushing the competition, whereas nowadays I see them as floundering ineffectively. If the workers weren't happy then, but are happy now, how does that fit with my perceptions?