5 ms·

I think it's unfortunate that a moderator decided to unkill this. It's not just inappropriate for HN due to content, but also because it's a mean-spirited hate

I think it's unfortunate that a moderator decided to unkill this. It's not just inappropriate for HN due to content, but also because it's a mean-spirited hate piece with bits of misogyny and homophobia thrown in. It's fine if someone wants to rebut the article (which seemed like a pretty straightforward interview to me), but the rebuttal that gets promoted to HN should have been more civil.

allenbrunson 17y ago
I agree. I flagged this article and I'm very surprised it came back from the dead. Doesn't seem to be in keeping with the usual vibe here at all.
davi 17y ago
"Don't say things you wouldn't say in a face to face conversation." (http://ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html http://ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html) + "Hey. My name is Ariel and I'm a total whore...for Microsoft that is!" = flag
- cool-RR 17y ago
  I think you're taking it out of context - I think it's meant for things that are said on HN itself, not in articles linked to from HN.
  - prodigal_erik 17y ago
    Articles linked should be better than the average HN comment. This one was noise, not signal.
  - davi 17y ago
    I know the guideline is for comments. I'm not interpreting it legalistically, I'm interpreting its intent: to shape the culture of the site.
neilk 17y ago
It wasn't a straightforward interview. It was a subtle form of astroturfing. PR is all about context. They try to dissociate the site from Microsoft (visually) to imply these are disinterested opinions. And in particular, that there's this cute young emo woman who wanders the halls of Microsoft entranced with the dreamy, rebellious hackers. The subtext, if you're a heterosexual male programmer, is that working for MS gets you the kinds of attention you've always wanted. And that real rebels ought to be working for Microsoft. All absurd, which is why they had to be subtle about it. If the sexual innuendo is said out loud -- as in a parody -- you then realize what's happened. It's debatable whether the tone is HN-appropriate, but I thought it made legitimate points, despite or perhaps because of the crudeness.
- cool-RR 17y ago
  Will I get downvoted if I'll point out that you can see in the picture here: http://www.microspotting.com/about http://www.microspotting.com/about that she isn't even that hot? In my opinion, if you can't resist the temptation to click that link, you lose your right to downvote it.
  - neilk 17y ago
    Well, I downvoted you for making her looks an HN issue. That wasn't the point I was trying to make. I'm sure she's attractive and talented and a bunch of other things besides, and the whole interview is probably entirely honest. But she's playing a role in a script that someone else wrote.
    - BrentRitterbeck 17y ago
      But she's playing a role in a script that someone else wrote. There are many people here interested in entrepreneurship, and part of entrepreneurship is creating a certain image about yourself. The way I read your comment, is that you are criticizing the fact that she is playing a role. How many people here who have started a company are very careful about the image you're creating for your company? Microsoft is no different.
gruseom 17y ago
I find this objection lame. Satire isn't supposed to be civil. It isn't supposed to be non-misogynist or non-homophobic either. It's supposed to be fucking ruthless. It's supposed to speak the unspoken truth about something, irrespective of decorum. Obviously not every shot is going to hit the mark, and the ones that miss often seem rude, crude, or both. But when satire hits the bullseye it transcends all of those categories because of the power of truth-telling. It has been a valuable part of civil discourse, in the larger sense, for as long as civil discourse has existed. As for this particular attempt at satire, I think it hit the target in a few places (in terms of nailing what's going on behind the original propaganda), and the rest of it reads like pretty much every other Zed Shaw blog post. So, not completely successful, but not too bad for an instant knockoff. And the original piece was so asking for it (did you read her t-shirt?) It would be interesting if other parodies pop up.
- prodigal_erik 17y ago
  Which unspoken truths are those? That the author has a problem with the idea of anal sex? That he (for reference: http://farm1.static.flickr.com/147/423037071_85d564748a.jpg http://farm1.static.flickr.com/147/423037071_85d564748a.jpg) thinks the interviewee has stereotypical facial hair?
  - deleted 17y ago
    [deleted]
- rdouble 17y ago
  As for this particular attempt at satire, I think it hit the target in a few places (in terms of nailing what's going on behind the original propaganda), and the rest of it reads like pretty much every other Zed Shaw blog post Zed's no Mark Twain. He took something that was almost a perfect self-parody and then made it less funny. When I read his version I get the same uneasy feeling I get when I worked with some guys from Long Island that would download Howard Stern episodes and listen to them on repeat all day. I wonder why he bothered to expend any energy on this. It's like making fun of retarded people.
- scott_s 17y ago

allenbrunson 17y ago

I agree. I flagged this article and I'm very surprised it came back from the dead. Doesn't seem to be in keeping with the usual vibe here at all.

davi 17y ago

"Don't say things you wouldn't say in a face to face conversation." (http://ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html http://ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html) + "Hey. My name is Ariel and I'm a total whore...for Microsoft that is!" = flag

cool-RR 17y ago
I think you're taking it out of context - I think it's meant for things that are said on HN itself, not in articles linked to from HN.
- prodigal_erik 17y ago
  Articles linked should be better than the average HN comment. This one was noise, not signal.
- davi 17y ago
  I know the guideline is for comments. I'm not interpreting it legalistically, I'm interpreting its intent: to shape the culture of the site.

neilk 17y ago

It wasn't a straightforward interview. It was a subtle form of astroturfing. PR is all about context. They try to dissociate the site from Microsoft (visually) to imply these are disinterested opinions. And in particular, that there's this cute young emo woman who wanders the halls of Microsoft entranced with the dreamy, rebellious hackers. The subtext, if you're a heterosexual male programmer, is that working for MS gets you the kinds of attention you've always wanted. And that real rebels ought to be working for Microsoft. All absurd, which is why they had to be subtle about it. If the sexual innuendo is said out loud -- as in a parody -- you then realize what's happened. It's debatable whether the tone is HN-appropriate, but I thought it made legitimate points, despite or perhaps because of the crudeness.

cool-RR 17y ago
Will I get downvoted if I'll point out that you can see in the picture here: http://www.microspotting.com/about http://www.microspotting.com/about that she isn't even that hot? In my opinion, if you can't resist the temptation to click that link, you lose your right to downvote it.
- neilk 17y ago
  Well, I downvoted you for making her looks an HN issue. That wasn't the point I was trying to make. I'm sure she's attractive and talented and a bunch of other things besides, and the whole interview is probably entirely honest. But she's playing a role in a script that someone else wrote.
  - BrentRitterbeck 17y ago
    But she's playing a role in a script that someone else wrote. There are many people here interested in entrepreneurship, and part of entrepreneurship is creating a certain image about yourself. The way I read your comment, is that you are criticizing the fact that she is playing a role. How many people here who have started a company are very careful about the image you're creating for your company? Microsoft is no different.

gruseom 17y ago

I find this objection lame. Satire isn't supposed to be civil. It isn't supposed to be non-misogynist or non-homophobic either. It's supposed to be fucking ruthless. It's supposed to speak the unspoken truth about something, irrespective of decorum. Obviously not every shot is going to hit the mark, and the ones that miss often seem rude, crude, or both. But when satire hits the bullseye it transcends all of those categories because of the power of truth-telling. It has been a valuable part of civil discourse, in the larger sense, for as long as civil discourse has existed. As for this particular attempt at satire, I think it hit the target in a few places (in terms of nailing what's going on behind the original propaganda), and the rest of it reads like pretty much every other Zed Shaw blog post. So, not completely successful, but not too bad for an instant knockoff. And the original piece was so asking for it (did you read her t-shirt?) It would be interesting if other parodies pop up.

prodigal_erik 17y ago
Which unspoken truths are those? That the author has a problem with the idea of anal sex? That he (for reference: http://farm1.static.flickr.com/147/423037071_85d564748a.jpg http://farm1.static.flickr.com/147/423037071_85d564748a.jpg) thinks the interviewee has stereotypical facial hair?
- deleted 17y ago
  [deleted]
rdouble 17y ago
As for this particular attempt at satire, I think it hit the target in a few places (in terms of nailing what's going on behind the original propaganda), and the rest of it reads like pretty much every other Zed Shaw blog post Zed's no Mark Twain. He took something that was almost a perfect self-parody and then made it less funny. When I read his version I get the same uneasy feeling I get when I worked with some guys from Long Island that would download Howard Stern episodes and listen to them on repeat all day. I wonder why he bothered to expend any energy on this. It's like making fun of retarded people.
scott_s 17y ago