4 ms·

Hospital Chain Said to Scheme to Inflate Bills

20 points by jejune06 13y ago

mschuster91 13y ago
...which is why public service infrastructure needs to be in government hands. The free market just messes it up.
- wavefunction 13y ago
  Hear hear. We shouldn't let anyone with a profit motive near healthcare.
  - clockworkelf 13y ago
    Insurance companies have a profit motive. That's why they wrote the "Affordable" Health Care Act. Not a coincidence that bills have an Orwellian ring to their names.
  - Zhenya 13y ago
    What about doctors?
- icebraining 13y ago
  That may very well be true (and I'm general happy to live in a country with a NHS), but the failure of the US healthcare system doesn't tell us that. A free market contrasts with a controlled market or regulated market, in which government intervenes in supply and demand through non-market methods such as laws controlling who is allowed to enter the market, mandating what type of product or service is supplied, or directly setting prices. - The array of regulations that govern health care can seem overwhelming to people who work in the industry. Almost every aspect of the field is overseen by one regulatory body or another, and sometimes by several. - Why Is Health Care Regulation So Complex? http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2730786/ http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2730786/
- melling 13y ago
  I'm not sure that your solution is better. Can you provide some evidence to suggest that government run programs don't offer worse results? I can't think of any examples where the government runs efficiently.
  - bertil 13y ago
    I believe that you have the US government in mind, and the original comment has European governments in mind. If this is the case, both of you are likely right. I also think that there is ample evidence that European governments run hospital very efficiently. In other words: American anti-government attitude says a lot more about their own government than more general consideration in political theory.
- anonymoushn 13y ago
  You try opening a hospital before saying that they exist in a free market. You might find that the other hospitals in the area, who get to determine whether you get to open a hospital at all[0], do not think you should be able to. [0]: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Certificate_of_need http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Certificate_of_need
- bashcoder 13y ago
  Because that's worked out so well for our veterans...
  - mschuster91 13y ago
    Yeah, because US Congress lacks the balls to decently fund public service.
  - tzs 13y ago
    It has worked out well for our veterans [1] [2] [3]. For those readers unfamiliar with US healthcare, the US in effect has several independent healthcare systems. Around 90% of veterans get healthcare through the Veterans Health Administration. It provides a healthcare system that uses the same model the Britain uses. For Americans 65 and older, we have Medicare, which uses the same model Canada uses. For Americans who get health insurance through their employer, we are similar to Germany. For Americans that do not fit into the above three groups, we are Cambodia or rural India, where you can see a doctor if you can pay the bill yourself out of pocket, or if you are so sick that you can be treated in the emergency room at a hospital. [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Veterans_Health_Administration#Overall_Evaluation http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Veterans_Health_Administration#... [2] http://www.marketwatch.com/story/its-hard-to-top-veterans-health-care-2010-06-02 http://www.marketwatch.com/story/its-hard-to-top-veterans-he... [3] http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2089116/ http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2089116/
    - bashcoder 13y ago
      Huh? Are you even remotely aware of what's going on? http://www.cnn.com/2013/11/19/health/veterans-dying-health-care-delays/ http://www.cnn.com/2013/11/19/health/veterans-dying-health-c...
      - tptacek 13y ago
        Are you aware of how ironic it is to be making an argument based on waiting lists in single-payer health care systems in an argument about the inferiority of US health care?
Mikeb85 13y ago
This is the inevitable outcome of any business where insurance pays the bill. Auto body shops are the same way...
jostmey 13y ago
Have you ever tried to get a quote before having a procedure done? I tried to get a quote for a CAT-Scan once. No one could estimate the cost of the procedure, even though there was a fixed cost associated with the equipment. How can free-market forces drive down costs when the costs are kept hidden from the customer?

20 points by jejune06 13y ago

mschuster91 13y ago

...which is why public service infrastructure needs to be in government hands. The free market just messes it up.

wavefunction 13y ago
Hear hear. We shouldn't let anyone with a profit motive near healthcare.
- clockworkelf 13y ago
  Insurance companies have a profit motive. That's why they wrote the "Affordable" Health Care Act. Not a coincidence that bills have an Orwellian ring to their names.
- Zhenya 13y ago
  What about doctors?
icebraining 13y ago
That may very well be true (and I'm general happy to live in a country with a NHS), but the failure of the US healthcare system doesn't tell us that. A free market contrasts with a controlled market or regulated market, in which government intervenes in supply and demand through non-market methods such as laws controlling who is allowed to enter the market, mandating what type of product or service is supplied, or directly setting prices. - The array of regulations that govern health care can seem overwhelming to people who work in the industry. Almost every aspect of the field is overseen by one regulatory body or another, and sometimes by several. - Why Is Health Care Regulation So Complex? http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2730786/ http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2730786/
melling 13y ago
I'm not sure that your solution is better. Can you provide some evidence to suggest that government run programs don't offer worse results? I can't think of any examples where the government runs efficiently.
- bertil 13y ago
  I believe that you have the US government in mind, and the original comment has European governments in mind. If this is the case, both of you are likely right. I also think that there is ample evidence that European governments run hospital very efficiently. In other words: American anti-government attitude says a lot more about their own government than more general consideration in political theory.
anonymoushn 13y ago
You try opening a hospital before saying that they exist in a free market. You might find that the other hospitals in the area, who get to determine whether you get to open a hospital at all[0], do not think you should be able to. [0]: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Certificate_of_need http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Certificate_of_need
bashcoder 13y ago
Because that's worked out so well for our veterans...
- mschuster91 13y ago
  Yeah, because US Congress lacks the balls to decently fund public service.
- tzs 13y ago
  It has worked out well for our veterans [1] [2] [3]. For those readers unfamiliar with US healthcare, the US in effect has several independent healthcare systems. Around 90% of veterans get healthcare through the Veterans Health Administration. It provides a healthcare system that uses the same model the Britain uses. For Americans 65 and older, we have Medicare, which uses the same model Canada uses. For Americans who get health insurance through their employer, we are similar to Germany. For Americans that do not fit into the above three groups, we are Cambodia or rural India, where you can see a doctor if you can pay the bill yourself out of pocket, or if you are so sick that you can be treated in the emergency room at a hospital. [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Veterans_Health_Administration#Overall_Evaluation http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Veterans_Health_Administration#... [2] http://www.marketwatch.com/story/its-hard-to-top-veterans-health-care-2010-06-02 http://www.marketwatch.com/story/its-hard-to-top-veterans-he... [3] http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2089116/ http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2089116/
  - bashcoder 13y ago
    Huh? Are you even remotely aware of what's going on? http://www.cnn.com/2013/11/19/health/veterans-dying-health-care-delays/ http://www.cnn.com/2013/11/19/health/veterans-dying-health-c...
    - tptacek 13y ago
      Are you aware of how ironic it is to be making an argument based on waiting lists in single-payer health care systems in an argument about the inferiority of US health care?

Mikeb85 13y ago

This is the inevitable outcome of any business where insurance pays the bill. Auto body shops are the same way...

jostmey 13y ago

Have you ever tried to get a quote before having a procedure done? I tried to get a quote for a CAT-Scan once. No one could estimate the cost of the procedure, even though there was a fixed cost associated with the equipment. How can free-market forces drive down costs when the costs are kept hidden from the customer?